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Is this just the more general problem of steadily decreasing cost to create & distribute content leading to a longer tail of low-quality content, requiring stro

by fritzo 1y ago

Is this just the more general problem of steadily decreasing cost to create & distribute content leading to a longer tail of low-quality content, requiring stronger filtering mechanisms? I don't see what's specifically AI-related here, that wouldn't also be a criticism of blogging, e-books, self-publishing, or even movable type.

FinnLobsien 1y ago
In principle you're right, the cost of publishing is decreasing, which increases the garbage out there. But I think there's a tipping point when the cost of anything hits (basically) zero, as content creation has with the advent of LLMs. Previously, someone had to at least sit down to write the garbage ebooks.
- mistrial9 1y ago
  Aunt Sally writing a book in her kitchen is not the same as automated publishing using scripts and bots. The ability of machines to generate content is not at all similar to real human authors. Those familiar with online commerce just want to fill pipes with content, and machines can make that content. It is a question of scale, speed and the nature of the material. This is not at all a stable situation IMHO as the larger trends are clear.
  - FinnLobsien 1y ago
    Yes, I mean that's true. But the idea that Aunt Sally writes a Kindle ebook in her kitchen is idealizing the self-publishing world. Even human writing for Kindle eBooks was mostly not Aunt Sally's passion project, but someone who hired an overseas writer for a short ebook on whatever topic is popular in SEO. Yes, LLMs supercharge that and set the cost of creation to zero, so it's a different ball game. But even before that, self-published ebooks were largely garbage by marketers.
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
  Like with email (or SMS, now) spam. The model is basically “arbitrage.” Produce a huge amount of crud, making only fractions of a penny, but there’s so much of it, the pennies add up. This is the kind of thing that can be addressed by well-enforced legislation, but, for some reason, that legislation (or enforcement) never seems to happen. I’m sure that has nothing at all to do with politicians, using the same techniques, to push their own agenda.
  - FinnLobsien 1y ago
    well one of the problems of legislating against these things is that legislation is never global, so as long as there's money to be made, someone, somewhere (where the laws don't exist or aren't enforced) will do it. Also, how would you address LLM writing with legislation?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      Writing couldn’t be addressed, but distribution could. Same as with spam email.
- guerrilla 1y ago
  *cost ignoring externalities, that is.
  - FinnLobsien 1y ago
    cost to the producer I guess
leoc 1y ago
Dan Olsen ("Folding Ideas") actually uploaded a video about KDP spamming, "Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw , in September 2022 just before ChatGPT 3 hit. Basically the whole turnkey infrastructure to automatically turn a prompt into a Kindle book was in full operation by then, just with human ghostwriters on Web portals in place of LLMs.

by fritzo 1y ago

FinnLobsien 1y ago

In principle you're right, the cost of publishing is decreasing, which increases the garbage out there. But I think there's a tipping point when the cost of anything hits (basically) zero, as content creation has with the advent of LLMs. Previously, someone had to at least sit down to write the garbage ebooks.

mistrial9 1y ago
Aunt Sally writing a book in her kitchen is not the same as automated publishing using scripts and bots. The ability of machines to generate content is not at all similar to real human authors. Those familiar with online commerce just want to fill pipes with content, and machines can make that content. It is a question of scale, speed and the nature of the material. This is not at all a stable situation IMHO as the larger trends are clear.
- FinnLobsien 1y ago
  Yes, I mean that's true. But the idea that Aunt Sally writes a Kindle ebook in her kitchen is idealizing the self-publishing world. Even human writing for Kindle eBooks was mostly not Aunt Sally's passion project, but someone who hired an overseas writer for a short ebook on whatever topic is popular in SEO. Yes, LLMs supercharge that and set the cost of creation to zero, so it's a different ball game. But even before that, self-published ebooks were largely garbage by marketers.
ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
Like with email (or SMS, now) spam. The model is basically “arbitrage.” Produce a huge amount of crud, making only fractions of a penny, but there’s so much of it, the pennies add up. This is the kind of thing that can be addressed by well-enforced legislation, but, for some reason, that legislation (or enforcement) never seems to happen. I’m sure that has nothing at all to do with politicians, using the same techniques, to push their own agenda.
- FinnLobsien 1y ago
  well one of the problems of legislating against these things is that legislation is never global, so as long as there's money to be made, someone, somewhere (where the laws don't exist or aren't enforced) will do it. Also, how would you address LLM writing with legislation?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    Writing couldn’t be addressed, but distribution could. Same as with spam email.
guerrilla 1y ago
*cost ignoring externalities, that is.
- FinnLobsien 1y ago
  cost to the producer I guess

leoc 1y ago

Dan Olsen ("Folding Ideas") actually uploaded a video about KDP spamming, "Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw , in September 2022 just before ChatGPT 3 hit. Basically the whole turnkey infrastructure to automatically turn a prompt into a Kindle book was in full operation by then, just with human ghostwriters on Web portals in place of LLMs.