4 ms·

While you have a point, we can't just ignore the fact that white people have systemic advantages simply because they're white. White people have always had "DEI

While you have a point, we can't just ignore the fact that white people have systemic advantages simply because they're white. White people have always had "DEI" or whatever you want to call it. If you show up to the interview and you're white, congratulations, you're 50% of the way there. They've done studies on this, but I think even without the studies it's just obvious to everyone: https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-white-names-black-names https://www.npr.org/2024/04/11/1243713272/resume-bias-study-...

amy214 2y ago
Your article basically says auto dealers are racist but federal contractors and "profitable companies" are generally more comparable. The solution would be to enforce racist regulations against the auto dealer, not falsely generalize the problem and enforce a solution. Secondly, there are fields of academia that make it a point to show racism exists and to uncover racism, so publications like this are as fraught with conflicts of interest as a cigarette company researcher investigating the benefits of nicotine. Pointing the finger at white people is also problematic, it's a racial supply/demand, and generally at competitive fields like medicine or programming, competitive schools, one sees a proportional oversaturation of asians (per capita) versus whites. Shall we say employers are favoring asians and talk about the asian menace, as we do the white menace? If particular races, often tagging a cultural history, are associated with different cultural preferences for lifestyle or career, I would simply say "so what?" If the goal is to homogenize equal participation from all demographics groups to all vocations, to me that seems silly and runs against human nature, it can be expected to work as well as the communist efforts of societal homogenization we saw in the 20th century. Yes, we need to kick the tires and convince ourselves that all are afforded somewhat fair opportunities, but seeing race as a confounder here or there, and immediately leaping to systematic racism as the purported mechanism - that's just poor science.
- const_cast 2y ago
  I'm not "pointing the finger" at anyone. Part of the problem with pointing out systemic racism and unconscious bias is that white folk are very fragile. They get uncomfortable when you point out very obvious deductions - like hundreds of years of racial injustice not magically disappearing in the late 60s. I'm not saying that other racism doesn't exist. But I am saying that complaints from white people on account of their whiteness is pathetic at best and willfully ignorant at worst. At the end of the day, white people, which includes me, are advantaged in virtually all areas of modern society. It would be easy to say that I got where I am based purely on my own skill and intellect. It would also not be true. The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success.
  - anonymars 2y ago
    I can't help but laugh when people make broad racial statements as they attempt to transcend racism. To wit, "white folk are very fragile" How much do you think "white privilege" rhetoric resonates with, say, French-speaking Mainers? Who also had the experience of "your name got you scorned from jobs or spit on in school" https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/us/longscorned-in-maine-french-has-renaissance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/us/longscorned-in-maine-f... Humans are racist because humans are tribal. Yes, we should work on improving as a society, but don't be surprised that making broad pejorative racial statements doesn't do it. This is a far better argument: > The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success. I would also add to that, "the values, attention, nutrition, and opportunities provided by my parents in my formative years"
    - const_cast 2y ago
      > This is a far better argument: > > The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success. Right, this is a very good argument. That's the argument behind CRT, lol. What you're missing is that what I described is tangibly and undeniably intertwined with race. Most of the US is still segregated. Why do you think I mentioned zip codes? For fun? Do you truly believe that has nothing to do with race or demographics? Even you could not be so ignorant. While it's easy and fun to believe race is just something that exists outside of our world, it's just not true. It's linked with crime, with homelessness, with drug use, with school funding, with opportunities, with healthcare outcomes, with pedestrian deaths, with access to medicine, with access to DMVs, with access to voting, and on and on. And those are all tangible. You can say that I got where I was based not on my race, but rather on my zipcode. Sure. But my zipcode is directly associated with race, so in reality, you agree with me.
      - anonymars 2y ago
        > Even you could not be so ignorant. I think I'm going to head out for now, but give me a holler when this strategy brings someone over to your point of view > so in reality, you agree with me Just so! You aren't actually arguing with what I said, which was basically, "I don't think your framing of this is effective", which is what I meant by "this is a far better argument" "The difference between cannibals and liberals is that cannibals eat only their enemies" - LBJ
throwaway48476 2y ago
This is a thread about a system that intentionally and explicitly advantaged one race over another. To then claim that white people have a systemic advantage seems absurd and at best counter factual.
- const_cast 2y ago
  It's not counter-factual, it's just factual. Look, I'm a white man. The unfortunate truth is that white people pretty much always have an advantage, because of unconscious bias. White people don't need formal systems that advantage them because they're already advantaged and have been for a long time.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    It is counter to the facts in the thread which are systemic and documented. Your subjective feelings and perception do not necessarily correspond to reality as documented or experienced by others. For the individual their perception is their reality so there is no advantage in arguing against it. If your belief system makes you feel better that is all well and good, but it doesn't give you the right to impose it on others. Your shahada is not shared by everyone else.
    - const_cast 2y ago
      It's counter to this specific thread. It's not counter to the world at large or, as you say, "reality". Critical race theory is a real area of study and there are multiple studies backing this up. The systemic advantage white people face is so painfully real and obvious that, if you deny it, you are delusional. > Your shahada is not shared by everyone else. It's not "shahada", it's science. Just because it makes you feel slightly uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not real. I encourage you to find a box of tissues, and get over it.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        You can call it "science" but your beliefs have more in common with quasi religious articles of faith. CRT is an area of study no different than theology. Aggressively proselytizing your religion is not as effective as you think, see the jehovahs witnesses. Lots of people feel their god is real and think non adherents are delusional, some even try to prove their god is real with "science".

amy214 2y ago

Your article basically says auto dealers are racist but federal contractors and "profitable companies" are generally more comparable. The solution would be to enforce racist regulations against the auto dealer, not falsely generalize the problem and enforce a solution. Secondly, there are fields of academia that make it a point to show racism exists and to uncover racism, so publications like this are as fraught with conflicts of interest as a cigarette company researcher investigating the benefits of nicotine. Pointing the finger at white people is also problematic, it's a racial supply/demand, and generally at competitive fields like medicine or programming, competitive schools, one sees a proportional oversaturation of asians (per capita) versus whites. Shall we say employers are favoring asians and talk about the asian menace, as we do the white menace? If particular races, often tagging a cultural history, are associated with different cultural preferences for lifestyle or career, I would simply say "so what?" If the goal is to homogenize equal participation from all demographics groups to all vocations, to me that seems silly and runs against human nature, it can be expected to work as well as the communist efforts of societal homogenization we saw in the 20th century. Yes, we need to kick the tires and convince ourselves that all are afforded somewhat fair opportunities, but seeing race as a confounder here or there, and immediately leaping to systematic racism as the purported mechanism - that's just poor science.

const_cast 2y ago
I'm not "pointing the finger" at anyone. Part of the problem with pointing out systemic racism and unconscious bias is that white folk are very fragile. They get uncomfortable when you point out very obvious deductions - like hundreds of years of racial injustice not magically disappearing in the late 60s. I'm not saying that other racism doesn't exist. But I am saying that complaints from white people on account of their whiteness is pathetic at best and willfully ignorant at worst. At the end of the day, white people, which includes me, are advantaged in virtually all areas of modern society. It would be easy to say that I got where I am based purely on my own skill and intellect. It would also not be true. The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success.
- anonymars 2y ago
  I can't help but laugh when people make broad racial statements as they attempt to transcend racism. To wit, "white folk are very fragile" How much do you think "white privilege" rhetoric resonates with, say, French-speaking Mainers? Who also had the experience of "your name got you scorned from jobs or spit on in school" https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/us/longscorned-in-maine-french-has-renaissance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/us/longscorned-in-maine-f... Humans are racist because humans are tribal. Yes, we should work on improving as a society, but don't be surprised that making broad pejorative racial statements doesn't do it. This is a far better argument: > The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success. I would also add to that, "the values, attention, nutrition, and opportunities provided by my parents in my formative years"
  - const_cast 2y ago
    > This is a far better argument: > > The zip code I was born in, the schools I went to, and the overall landscape of modern America have an incalculable influence in my success. Right, this is a very good argument. That's the argument behind CRT, lol. What you're missing is that what I described is tangibly and undeniably intertwined with race. Most of the US is still segregated. Why do you think I mentioned zip codes? For fun? Do you truly believe that has nothing to do with race or demographics? Even you could not be so ignorant. While it's easy and fun to believe race is just something that exists outside of our world, it's just not true. It's linked with crime, with homelessness, with drug use, with school funding, with opportunities, with healthcare outcomes, with pedestrian deaths, with access to medicine, with access to DMVs, with access to voting, and on and on. And those are all tangible. You can say that I got where I was based not on my race, but rather on my zipcode. Sure. But my zipcode is directly associated with race, so in reality, you agree with me.
    - anonymars 2y ago
      > Even you could not be so ignorant. I think I'm going to head out for now, but give me a holler when this strategy brings someone over to your point of view > so in reality, you agree with me Just so! You aren't actually arguing with what I said, which was basically, "I don't think your framing of this is effective", which is what I meant by "this is a far better argument" "The difference between cannibals and liberals is that cannibals eat only their enemies" - LBJ

throwaway48476 2y ago

This is a thread about a system that intentionally and explicitly advantaged one race over another. To then claim that white people have a systemic advantage seems absurd and at best counter factual.

const_cast 2y ago
It's not counter-factual, it's just factual. Look, I'm a white man. The unfortunate truth is that white people pretty much always have an advantage, because of unconscious bias. White people don't need formal systems that advantage them because they're already advantaged and have been for a long time.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  It is counter to the facts in the thread which are systemic and documented. Your subjective feelings and perception do not necessarily correspond to reality as documented or experienced by others. For the individual their perception is their reality so there is no advantage in arguing against it. If your belief system makes you feel better that is all well and good, but it doesn't give you the right to impose it on others. Your shahada is not shared by everyone else.
  - const_cast 2y ago
    It's counter to this specific thread. It's not counter to the world at large or, as you say, "reality". Critical race theory is a real area of study and there are multiple studies backing this up. The systemic advantage white people face is so painfully real and obvious that, if you deny it, you are delusional. > Your shahada is not shared by everyone else. It's not "shahada", it's science. Just because it makes you feel slightly uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not real. I encourage you to find a box of tissues, and get over it.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      You can call it "science" but your beliefs have more in common with quasi religious articles of faith. CRT is an area of study no different than theology. Aggressively proselytizing your religion is not as effective as you think, see the jehovahs witnesses. Lots of people feel their god is real and think non adherents are delusional, some even try to prove their god is real with "science".