5 ms·

Why are there no thunderstorms in the UK?

18 points by sph 2y ago

spacedcowboy 2y ago
A corollary of everywhere in the UK being North of anywhere in the USA (apart from the cheat-code that is Alaska). The UK is just too damn North, and therefore too damn cold (regardless of the Gulf Stream effect) for the heat-exchange that powers big thunderstorms Except when it's not ,of course. I recall the Great Storm of 1987 [1], being at Imperial College at the time, and seeing the trees fall and hit some of the campus halls. Fortunately, Linstead Hall (there was an immense tree outside my window) wasn't one of them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1987 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1987
- ofalkaed 2y ago
  There was not one thunderstorm in the years I lived in the PNW or the years I lived in Austin TX, it is more complicated than how far north you are. There was a very good thunderstorm during my vacation in Alaska a few years ago but I have no idea how common they are there, no one remarked on it being a rare occurrence, just that it was a good storm.
  - duck 2y ago
    Very rare in the PNW (or at least Washington) and Alaska. Thankful for that as the chances of a fire starting from them seems high. Last summer we only had one lighting "storm" which had a total two lighting strikes and one of them started a fire.
  - drcongo 2y ago
    I spend just one week per year in Austin and I've seen several there so I always assumed they were common. It's either me or my timing!
  - apercu 2y ago
    > Austin TX Strange, in Dallas, where I grew up, we had severe thunderstorms every spring. I suppose Austin is further south, on a plateau and hillier, and not really a part of the Great Plains?
    - vel0city 2y ago
      I don't exactly have solid data on it, but from what I've seen the big thunderstorms of Dallas don't often get further South than like Waco. Even Dallas seems to miss a lot of the big storm fronts or only get hit by the tail of them.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  It's more about the oceanic climate. According to the map in the article, continental areas at similar latitudes see more thunderstorms than the UK. I guess that's mostly because temperate thunderstorms often happen near the front between cold and warm air masses, and continental climates give you more opportunities for that.
- pxeger1 2y ago
  I knew the US was further south than one assumes, but wow. In fact, even all of Luxembourg is further north than all of the continental US!
- starbird3000 2y ago
  I remember that storm too. I slept through the entire thing, despite all the damage done outside (greenhouses moved houses away, the roof of our school ripped off, trees down, and builders frantically knocking down other trees pretending that it was storm damage).
hermitcrab 2y ago
We do have thunderstorms in the UK. But not very often. I might see forked lighting on one or two days a year.
- robinsonb5 2y ago
  Intersting - here in Norfolk I'd say I see it between half a dozen and a dozen times a year.
  - hermitcrab 2y ago
    Moister air, near the coast? but I spent 7 years in Suffolk and I don't remember there being a lot of lightning there either.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
We get occasional thunder-snowstorms, in East Coast US (Long Island, NY). I hear they are more common, Upstate.
oncallthrow 2y ago
??? There are fairly often thunderstorms here. At least 3 per year, I'd estimate.
- ofalkaed 2y ago
  Here in Minnesota we have had at least 6 in the past month including a thunder snowstorm, I would call "3 per year" as rare, not fairly often.
- eesmith 2y ago
  They were almost daily in summer as a kid in Florida. https://www.weather.gov/tbw/RainySeason https://www.weather.gov/tbw/RainySeason for reasons. https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/topics/thunderstorms https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/topics/thunderstorms shows I got about 80 per year. I missed the storms when I moved away. Silicon Valley's weather was so boring. UK's at least has some variability at a timescale smaller than weekly.
- sph 2y ago
  Nonsense. I have lived in UK (London) for 13 years, and I'd say I saw on average one thunderstorm a year, and they last just a few minutes [1]. Now back in Italy, it's like every other week during the warmer months. Anyway, the post provides more information than N=1 anecdotes. UK is just too far north for them. 1: I quite like thunderstorms, and I remember the last time there was one where I lived in N. London. It was a single instance of thunder last autumn, lasted all of 2 minutes. Quite underwhelming to say the least.
- verzali 2y ago
  There are thunderstorms in the UK and at a least a few in any place per year. But compared to some places further south they are rare. Incidentally, the UK has the highest rate of tornados per area in the world.
mikrl 2y ago
I read that Oceanic climates are less stable, making it harder for the massive cumulonimbus clouds associated with thunderstorms to form. Here in Ontario, I can sit on the beach and look over westward and see storms approaching from Michigan. One summer I saw a cloud top on the horizon at about 3:30pm and managed to get in one last swim before packing the car and getting on the road right as the rain started around 5:00… European weather is not that predictable until you get into the continental zone… eastern Germany through Poland.
politelemon 2y ago
> I’ve been living in England for a year and I rarely saw a flash of lightning once I cannot tell if this is satire, but that isn't enough data. The UK has thunderstorms.
switch007 2y ago
I seem to recall way more thunderstorms when I was younger. Turns out there was a peak during my childhood and we're now on the decline: > "Overall, there was a reduction in the number of days of thunder in the UK per year between 1989 and 2019, according to the study. Thunderstorms increased in the north of the UK and decreased in the south" [0] Of course there's an element of being more scared of thunderstorms when you're young and noticing them more. I also wear earplugs at night now as the world seems noisier, but I digress. Also: > "A 2014 study predicted the frequency of lightning strikes around the world would increase by about 12% for every 1C rise in global temperature." [1] [0] https://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/How+many+days+of+thunder+do+we+have+in+the+UK+18082022151515?open https://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/How+many+days... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/18/more-than-half-uk-lightning-strikes-this-year-since-sunday https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/18/more-than-ha...
- gpjt 2y ago
  Huh, I was thinking the same thing, and was wondering whether it was just moving to London. Could be both, I suppose.
globular-toast 2y ago
We have enough thunderstorms that I do get worried about lightning frying my electronics. I have surge protectors on a lot of my gear, which might offer some protection. I'd love to have an optional internet connection but, alas, copper is all that is available. Anyone bothered isolating their copper internet connection from their network? If so, how?
- kin0025 2y ago
  [dead]
- MattPalmer1086 2y ago
  Right. I once had a motherboard completely fried during a thunderstorm in London, back in the 90s. I always use good quality surge protectors for expensive kit now.
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    I had a part of my mobo fried which I suspect was due to lightning. Lost the onboard ethernet and USB. Computer kept going for years after I added a PCI NIC and just lived without USB somehow (should have really got a PCI card too but I was extremely against spending money back then).
crustycoder 2y ago
Yes, but: "Although most people think of twisters striking ‘Tornado Alley’ in the US, the UK actually has more tornadoes per area than any other country." https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/new-map-of-uk-tornadoes-produced/ https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/new-map-of-uk-tornad... It's just they are small, and short lived.
stranded22 2y ago
There ARE thunderstorms in the UK - just not as many as other places… I live in south east England and see a few a year.
compsciphd 2y ago
How Queen wrote Bohemian Rhapsody now confuses me.

18 points by sph 2y ago

A corollary of everywhere in the UK being North of anywhere in the USA (apart from the cheat-code that is Alaska). The UK is just too damn North, and therefore too damn cold (regardless of the Gulf Stream effect) for the heat-exchange that powers big thunderstorms Except when it's not ,of course. I recall the Great Storm of 1987 [1], being at Imperial College at the time, and seeing the trees fall and hit some of the campus halls. Fortunately, Linstead Hall (there was an immense tree outside my window) wasn't one of them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1987 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1987

ofalkaed 2y ago
There was not one thunderstorm in the years I lived in the PNW or the years I lived in Austin TX, it is more complicated than how far north you are. There was a very good thunderstorm during my vacation in Alaska a few years ago but I have no idea how common they are there, no one remarked on it being a rare occurrence, just that it was a good storm.
- duck 2y ago
  Very rare in the PNW (or at least Washington) and Alaska. Thankful for that as the chances of a fire starting from them seems high. Last summer we only had one lighting "storm" which had a total two lighting strikes and one of them started a fire.
- drcongo 2y ago
  I spend just one week per year in Austin and I've seen several there so I always assumed they were common. It's either me or my timing!
- apercu 2y ago
  > Austin TX Strange, in Dallas, where I grew up, we had severe thunderstorms every spring. I suppose Austin is further south, on a plateau and hillier, and not really a part of the Great Plains?
  - vel0city 2y ago
    I don't exactly have solid data on it, but from what I've seen the big thunderstorms of Dallas don't often get further South than like Waco. Even Dallas seems to miss a lot of the big storm fronts or only get hit by the tail of them.
jltsiren 2y ago
It's more about the oceanic climate. According to the map in the article, continental areas at similar latitudes see more thunderstorms than the UK. I guess that's mostly because temperate thunderstorms often happen near the front between cold and warm air masses, and continental climates give you more opportunities for that.
pxeger1 2y ago
I knew the US was further south than one assumes, but wow. In fact, even all of Luxembourg is further north than all of the continental US!
starbird3000 2y ago
I remember that storm too. I slept through the entire thing, despite all the damage done outside (greenhouses moved houses away, the roof of our school ripped off, trees down, and builders frantically knocking down other trees pretending that it was storm damage).

hermitcrab 2y ago

We do have thunderstorms in the UK. But not very often. I might see forked lighting on one or two days a year.

robinsonb5 2y ago
Intersting - here in Norfolk I'd say I see it between half a dozen and a dozen times a year.
- hermitcrab 2y ago
  Moister air, near the coast? but I spent 7 years in Suffolk and I don't remember there being a lot of lightning there either.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

We get occasional thunder-snowstorms, in East Coast US (Long Island, NY). I hear they are more common, Upstate.

oncallthrow 2y ago

??? There are fairly often thunderstorms here. At least 3 per year, I'd estimate.

ofalkaed 2y ago
Here in Minnesota we have had at least 6 in the past month including a thunder snowstorm, I would call "3 per year" as rare, not fairly often.
eesmith 2y ago
They were almost daily in summer as a kid in Florida. https://www.weather.gov/tbw/RainySeason https://www.weather.gov/tbw/RainySeason for reasons. https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/topics/thunderstorms https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/topics/thunderstorms shows I got about 80 per year. I missed the storms when I moved away. Silicon Valley's weather was so boring. UK's at least has some variability at a timescale smaller than weekly.
sph 2y ago
Nonsense. I have lived in UK (London) for 13 years, and I'd say I saw on average one thunderstorm a year, and they last just a few minutes [1]. Now back in Italy, it's like every other week during the warmer months. Anyway, the post provides more information than N=1 anecdotes. UK is just too far north for them. 1: I quite like thunderstorms, and I remember the last time there was one where I lived in N. London. It was a single instance of thunder last autumn, lasted all of 2 minutes. Quite underwhelming to say the least.
verzali 2y ago
There are thunderstorms in the UK and at a least a few in any place per year. But compared to some places further south they are rare. Incidentally, the UK has the highest rate of tornados per area in the world.

mikrl 2y ago

I read that Oceanic climates are less stable, making it harder for the massive cumulonimbus clouds associated with thunderstorms to form. Here in Ontario, I can sit on the beach and look over westward and see storms approaching from Michigan. One summer I saw a cloud top on the horizon at about 3:30pm and managed to get in one last swim before packing the car and getting on the road right as the rain started around 5:00… European weather is not that predictable until you get into the continental zone… eastern Germany through Poland.

politelemon 2y ago

> I’ve been living in England for a year and I rarely saw a flash of lightning once I cannot tell if this is satire, but that isn't enough data. The UK has thunderstorms.

switch007 2y ago

I seem to recall way more thunderstorms when I was younger. Turns out there was a peak during my childhood and we're now on the decline: > "Overall, there was a reduction in the number of days of thunder in the UK per year between 1989 and 2019, according to the study. Thunderstorms increased in the north of the UK and decreased in the south" [0] Of course there's an element of being more scared of thunderstorms when you're young and noticing them more. I also wear earplugs at night now as the world seems noisier, but I digress. Also: > "A 2014 study predicted the frequency of lightning strikes around the world would increase by about 12% for every 1C rise in global temperature." [1] [0] https://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/How+many+days+of+thunder+do+we+have+in+the+UK+18082022151515?open https://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/How+many+days... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/18/more-than-half-uk-lightning-strikes-this-year-since-sunday https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/18/more-than-ha...

gpjt 2y ago
Huh, I was thinking the same thing, and was wondering whether it was just moving to London. Could be both, I suppose.

globular-toast 2y ago

We have enough thunderstorms that I do get worried about lightning frying my electronics. I have surge protectors on a lot of my gear, which might offer some protection. I'd love to have an optional internet connection but, alas, copper is all that is available. Anyone bothered isolating their copper internet connection from their network? If so, how?

kin0025 2y ago
[dead]
MattPalmer1086 2y ago
Right. I once had a motherboard completely fried during a thunderstorm in London, back in the 90s. I always use good quality surge protectors for expensive kit now.
- globular-toast 2y ago
  I had a part of my mobo fried which I suspect was due to lightning. Lost the onboard ethernet and USB. Computer kept going for years after I added a PCI NIC and just lived without USB somehow (should have really got a PCI card too but I was extremely against spending money back then).

crustycoder 2y ago

Yes, but: "Although most people think of twisters striking ‘Tornado Alley’ in the US, the UK actually has more tornadoes per area than any other country." https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/new-map-of-uk-tornadoes-produced/ https://www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/new-map-of-uk-tornad... It's just they are small, and short lived.

stranded22 2y ago

There ARE thunderstorms in the UK - just not as many as other places… I live in south east England and see a few a year.

compsciphd 2y ago

How Queen wrote Bohemian Rhapsody now confuses me.