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by mingus88 1y ago

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sunrunner 1y ago
> Melodies will be in a key, using a set of notes. That’s kinda unavoidable. Schoenberg has entered the chat.
- andybak 1y ago
  Arguably we tend to attempt to hear atonal music in a key (or temporal sequence of keys) despite it's attempt to avoid that. I suspect something similar about bitonality. We hear one of the keys and then try and interpret the other notes in relation to that. (warning. I am neither a music theorist or an expert in the psychology of music perception. But this is HN so yolo...)
  - sunrunner 1y ago
    > we tend to attempt to hear atonal music in a key Is it the case that much of this is influenced by individuals having grown up listening in an environment with music already structured around a central key and modulation around that? With the same idea also applying to an understanding (or feeling) of rhythm?
- Biganon 1y ago
  Atonal music / serialism is insufferable pretentious bs that no one has ever listened to with pleasure, ever. It's a purely mathematical study, orthogonal to art.
  - sunrunner 1y ago
    I don't disagree regarding "listened to with pleasure" and I only remember actively listening to atonal music as part of a required syllabus. I do think it's perhaps a useful lens to use to look at 'traditional' tonal music through however, even if just to re-affirm that _some_ kind of order and structure is an important part in making something palatable to the ears (or the brain).
    - epcoa 1y ago
      I will continue to abstain from eating dog shit to convince myself that a ribeye tastes good.
thisismytest 1y ago
When it comes to cultural significance and catchiness the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn’t matter. In fact, the ability to tap into mass media only makes the impact of a song greater. Access to electric instruments and effects only gave them more ability to create interesting music. I’m a fan of all kinds of music old and new. But anyone saying German leders or old timey civil war ditties are better than Smells Like Teen spirit are high on their own supply. Most of history humans expressed an extraordinarily limited range of emotion in song, in rigid form. Kurt Cobain wrote more than one song that you could play for a toddler and they’d love it. He wrote more than one song that hundreds of millions of people are listening to 30 years later. I’m sorry but your favorite Gregorian Chant is just not very good in comparison.
- globnomulous 1y ago
  This comment is such a weird way to defend the patently absurd claim that he wrote some of the best songs in human history. Even the first sentence makes no cogent sense, especially when read alongside your original comment: > When it comes to cultural significance and catchiness the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn’t matter. You've apparently changed your argument. "Best in human history" does not mean "most culturally significant and catchiest." If "the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn't matter," then why did you mention all of human history? If what you mean instead is that you care only about contemporary, present-day cultural impact, then, again, why did you mention all of human history? You've already decided that no time period other than the present matters.
  - quesera 1y ago
    > You've apparently changed your argument. "Best in human history" does not mean "most culturally significant and catchiest." To be fair, "best" has no correct definition. What's yours?
    - globnomulous 1y ago
      > What's yours? Just not whatever that guy's is. Less cheekily, I agree with you that, in the case of something like music, the concept of "best" has no correct meaning. It's literal nonsense.
dang 1y ago
> you have lost credibility in my eyes > Have you any idea > What a ridiculous statement Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully and edit out swipes, as the site guidelines ask? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

sunrunner 1y ago

> Melodies will be in a key, using a set of notes. That’s kinda unavoidable. Schoenberg has entered the chat.

andybak 1y ago
Arguably we tend to attempt to hear atonal music in a key (or temporal sequence of keys) despite it's attempt to avoid that. I suspect something similar about bitonality. We hear one of the keys and then try and interpret the other notes in relation to that. (warning. I am neither a music theorist or an expert in the psychology of music perception. But this is HN so yolo...)
- sunrunner 1y ago
  > we tend to attempt to hear atonal music in a key Is it the case that much of this is influenced by individuals having grown up listening in an environment with music already structured around a central key and modulation around that? With the same idea also applying to an understanding (or feeling) of rhythm?
Biganon 1y ago
Atonal music / serialism is insufferable pretentious bs that no one has ever listened to with pleasure, ever. It's a purely mathematical study, orthogonal to art.
- sunrunner 1y ago
  I don't disagree regarding "listened to with pleasure" and I only remember actively listening to atonal music as part of a required syllabus. I do think it's perhaps a useful lens to use to look at 'traditional' tonal music through however, even if just to re-affirm that _some_ kind of order and structure is an important part in making something palatable to the ears (or the brain).
  - epcoa 1y ago
    I will continue to abstain from eating dog shit to convince myself that a ribeye tastes good.

thisismytest 1y ago

When it comes to cultural significance and catchiness the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn’t matter. In fact, the ability to tap into mass media only makes the impact of a song greater. Access to electric instruments and effects only gave them more ability to create interesting music. I’m a fan of all kinds of music old and new. But anyone saying German leders or old timey civil war ditties are better than Smells Like Teen spirit are high on their own supply. Most of history humans expressed an extraordinarily limited range of emotion in song, in rigid form. Kurt Cobain wrote more than one song that you could play for a toddler and they’d love it. He wrote more than one song that hundreds of millions of people are listening to 30 years later. I’m sorry but your favorite Gregorian Chant is just not very good in comparison.

globnomulous 1y ago
This comment is such a weird way to defend the patently absurd claim that he wrote some of the best songs in human history. Even the first sentence makes no cogent sense, especially when read alongside your original comment: > When it comes to cultural significance and catchiness the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn’t matter. You've apparently changed your argument. "Best in human history" does not mean "most culturally significant and catchiest." If "the fact that people have been doing it for a long time doesn't matter," then why did you mention all of human history? If what you mean instead is that you care only about contemporary, present-day cultural impact, then, again, why did you mention all of human history? You've already decided that no time period other than the present matters.
- quesera 1y ago
  > You've apparently changed your argument. "Best in human history" does not mean "most culturally significant and catchiest." To be fair, "best" has no correct definition. What's yours?
  - globnomulous 1y ago
    > What's yours? Just not whatever that guy's is. Less cheekily, I agree with you that, in the case of something like music, the concept of "best" has no correct meaning. It's literal nonsense.

dang 1y ago

> you have lost credibility in my eyes > Have you any idea > What a ridiculous statement Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully and edit out swipes, as the site guidelines ask? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html