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I've been passively downsizing over the last few years just because having a bunch of shit is really fatiguing from an entropy management perspective. Moving it

I've been passively downsizing over the last few years just because having a bunch of shit is really fatiguing from an entropy management perspective. Moving it is 10x worse. If the movers won't answer your calls and your business drives them to bankruptcy, I wonder if maybe the problem exists on the customer side more than the business side. Hoarders can be extremely difficult people to work with. I've got it in my family and I can feel it in my bones sometimes. There are garages and homes that I will be responsible for cleaning out that will likely take me multiple days to complete even with an army of paid help.

twodave 2y ago
This is such an understated take IMO. In our house we are constantly moving things out to reduce clutter, get rid of unneeded items and, maybe most of all, eliminate the stress of just knowing they’re there. Sometimes we get rid of something we later realize we needed. It’s pretty rare, but when it happens it’s almost never anything expensive. How do you put a price tag on your stress level, though? Just get rid of it and spend the $20-50 if you cut a bit too deep. A few “lessons” like that and you’ll be way more in tune with what you actually need. It’s been years since we had to “rebuy” anything at all. I still think moving again would be daunting, just because we are a family of 6 and there’s no way to move that much furniture easily, much less all the things that fill that furniture. But at least if it happens we don’t have to move a bunch of trash we can’t easily discern the need for. EDIT: also “getting rid of stuff” doesn’t necessarily mean throwing it away. If you’re willing to give things away there are a lot of people out there who could actually use the things you’re not. Clothes, kitchen gadgets, kids’ toys… especially toys, we have our kids pick several items before every birthday/Christmas to give away to make room for whatever the family is about to give them.
- PebblesRox 2y ago
  The optimal amount of regret from decluttering is non-zero! I’ve learned that yes, maybe 1 out of every 100 items I get rid of will turn out to be something I need again in the future. That’s a worthwhile price to pay for the benefit of not having the other 99 items in my life! Donating to thrift stores is very convenient. And I learned recently that if I have stuff that’s not really nice enough for the thrift store to sell, I can just list it on Facebook Marketplace for free and people will come take it away from my porch! Makes me feel better about getting rid of stuff that still has some use in it, because I’m not just throwing it in the trash. My mother-in-law and her friends use a system I call clutter laundering. Anything with too much sentimental value to give to a stranger, they pass along to each other. Presumably once the emotional distance is long enough, somebody can actually get rid of it for good! (That’s what I’ve been helping my MIL do with stuff that comes to her at least!)
  - arcastroe 2y ago
    Things with sentimental value have so because they trigger memories. I find a photo of the object triggers memories just the same. Snap a photo, place it in some memories album, and donate. It's much easier to hoard digital photos than physical objects
    - _dark_matter_ 2y ago
      This is a great idea! Thank you!
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I live on a busy road but at the end of a very long driveway. I find if I drag a piece of furniture or outdoor equipment out to the end of the driveway on a nice weekend, its half-life of still being there is maybe a few hours.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  Yeah, this is best summed up as: >Only the rich can afford to have nothing. (if they get rid of something and miss it, they'll just buy another)
  - twodave 2y ago
    Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. We’ve done this since I graduated from college, when I was making about 1/10 annually what I am now, though. As I said, you get pretty good at knowing what is worth keeping. Besides, even with a low income it is important to prioritize being charitable. We teach this to our kids. If you don’t prioritize it early in life when things are tight, you’re likely not to prioritize it later when most people have even more opportunity to be charitable.
- nullc 2y ago
  > eliminate the stress of just knowing they’re there That sounds both irrational and unhealthy. Why are you suffering from stress because you have stuff?
  - twodave 2y ago
    I thought the context of my comment made it obvious. Unneeded and unnecessary items cluttering up your home are to me akin to leaves in the garage. It inconveniences me every time I have to step around or over them, clear space to set a drink down, move that box in my closet full of old cables, etc., similar to how walking into your garage with socks on is a lot more annoying if there are leaves and pollen about. I would contend it’s rather less healthy not to notice these things since they subtract from one’s executive function.
    - nullc 2y ago
      Had your comment said that you were inconvenienced by stuff in your way when you were trying to get things done or find things, I wouldn't have even considered commenting.
      - twodave 2y ago
        Interesting! I thought that was implied by my use of the word “clutter,” since that’s how I think of the term.
criddell 2y ago
There's a world of space between hoarder and minimalist and I feel pretty comfortable in the middle. I've been working for 40 years now and have bought a lot of stuff that I get a lot of enjoyment out of. My favorite thing in the world is to have time off work with nothing to do and nowhere to go. I think if I were forced to retire today, I'd have no problem spending the rest of my days puttering around my home. I don't have the hoarding gene, but I might have the hermit gene...
pfdietz 2y ago
When we last moved we spent months discarding an enormous quantity of crap that had accumulated over 20+ years. It was very liberating, and has led to even more disposal of unneeded stuff since.
- kbutler 2y ago
  We last moved on a very short notice after 20+ years. Got rid of lots of stuff, but ended up moving a bunch we didn't have time to sort through. Got to get back to sorting & discarding - or maybe, if it's still in the box, I don't really need it?
LorenPechtel 2y ago
Where is there any indication of hoarding in this situation? The company contracted to provide certain services but wasn't staffed to actually do so, nor well enough equipped to actually accomplish it (lack of packing materials.) How much stuff is being moved is completely irrelevant to this. The thing is movers have little in the way of repeat business, thus little incentive to treat the customer right.
- andrewaylett 2y ago
  The movers you want are the ones that are used by big organisations to relocate their people. A friend discovered a nearly-ideal way to move out of the house they'd been in for >30 years: she trained as a minister for the Church of England, and when she was placed in a role the church packed up the whole house (including all the fossils and archaeological finds they'd accumulated) and relocated them. That said, I've always hired a van for house moves, and it's going to have been a lot easier for me (never moving more than 20 miles since coming north for university) than for folk moving across the US.
- rcstank 2y ago
  There isn’t any indication of such, OP formed a strawman by suggesting the problem is because of hoarding.
globular-toast 2y ago
Multiple days? A proper hoarder will take multiple months if there's any stuff of value there. If it's just boxes of old milk bottle tops it might be easier. But a proper hoarder will have a box of milk bottle tops right next to a box of expensive tools or something. I've done the minimal lifestyle and found it tiring too. I got myself into a state where I wouldn't have any nice things because I would always be thinking it's one more thing to move when I inevitably do. But I don't want to move. I like being in one place and having a home. Hoarding is not the way, but it's ok to have this too.

twodave 2y ago

This is such an understated take IMO. In our house we are constantly moving things out to reduce clutter, get rid of unneeded items and, maybe most of all, eliminate the stress of just knowing they’re there. Sometimes we get rid of something we later realize we needed. It’s pretty rare, but when it happens it’s almost never anything expensive. How do you put a price tag on your stress level, though? Just get rid of it and spend the $20-50 if you cut a bit too deep. A few “lessons” like that and you’ll be way more in tune with what you actually need. It’s been years since we had to “rebuy” anything at all. I still think moving again would be daunting, just because we are a family of 6 and there’s no way to move that much furniture easily, much less all the things that fill that furniture. But at least if it happens we don’t have to move a bunch of trash we can’t easily discern the need for. EDIT: also “getting rid of stuff” doesn’t necessarily mean throwing it away. If you’re willing to give things away there are a lot of people out there who could actually use the things you’re not. Clothes, kitchen gadgets, kids’ toys… especially toys, we have our kids pick several items before every birthday/Christmas to give away to make room for whatever the family is about to give them.

PebblesRox 2y ago
The optimal amount of regret from decluttering is non-zero! I’ve learned that yes, maybe 1 out of every 100 items I get rid of will turn out to be something I need again in the future. That’s a worthwhile price to pay for the benefit of not having the other 99 items in my life! Donating to thrift stores is very convenient. And I learned recently that if I have stuff that’s not really nice enough for the thrift store to sell, I can just list it on Facebook Marketplace for free and people will come take it away from my porch! Makes me feel better about getting rid of stuff that still has some use in it, because I’m not just throwing it in the trash. My mother-in-law and her friends use a system I call clutter laundering. Anything with too much sentimental value to give to a stranger, they pass along to each other. Presumably once the emotional distance is long enough, somebody can actually get rid of it for good! (That’s what I’ve been helping my MIL do with stuff that comes to her at least!)
- arcastroe 2y ago
  Things with sentimental value have so because they trigger memories. I find a photo of the object triggers memories just the same. Snap a photo, place it in some memories album, and donate. It's much easier to hoard digital photos than physical objects
  - _dark_matter_ 2y ago
    This is a great idea! Thank you!
- ghaff 2y ago
  I live on a busy road but at the end of a very long driveway. I find if I drag a piece of furniture or outdoor equipment out to the end of the driveway on a nice weekend, its half-life of still being there is maybe a few hours.
WillAdams 2y ago
Yeah, this is best summed up as: >Only the rich can afford to have nothing. (if they get rid of something and miss it, they'll just buy another)
- twodave 2y ago
  Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. We’ve done this since I graduated from college, when I was making about 1/10 annually what I am now, though. As I said, you get pretty good at knowing what is worth keeping. Besides, even with a low income it is important to prioritize being charitable. We teach this to our kids. If you don’t prioritize it early in life when things are tight, you’re likely not to prioritize it later when most people have even more opportunity to be charitable.
nullc 2y ago
> eliminate the stress of just knowing they’re there That sounds both irrational and unhealthy. Why are you suffering from stress because you have stuff?
- twodave 2y ago
  I thought the context of my comment made it obvious. Unneeded and unnecessary items cluttering up your home are to me akin to leaves in the garage. It inconveniences me every time I have to step around or over them, clear space to set a drink down, move that box in my closet full of old cables, etc., similar to how walking into your garage with socks on is a lot more annoying if there are leaves and pollen about. I would contend it’s rather less healthy not to notice these things since they subtract from one’s executive function.
  - nullc 2y ago
    Had your comment said that you were inconvenienced by stuff in your way when you were trying to get things done or find things, I wouldn't have even considered commenting.
    - twodave 2y ago
      Interesting! I thought that was implied by my use of the word “clutter,” since that’s how I think of the term.

criddell 2y ago

There's a world of space between hoarder and minimalist and I feel pretty comfortable in the middle. I've been working for 40 years now and have bought a lot of stuff that I get a lot of enjoyment out of. My favorite thing in the world is to have time off work with nothing to do and nowhere to go. I think if I were forced to retire today, I'd have no problem spending the rest of my days puttering around my home. I don't have the hoarding gene, but I might have the hermit gene...

pfdietz 2y ago

When we last moved we spent months discarding an enormous quantity of crap that had accumulated over 20+ years. It was very liberating, and has led to even more disposal of unneeded stuff since.

kbutler 2y ago
We last moved on a very short notice after 20+ years. Got rid of lots of stuff, but ended up moving a bunch we didn't have time to sort through. Got to get back to sorting & discarding - or maybe, if it's still in the box, I don't really need it?

LorenPechtel 2y ago

Where is there any indication of hoarding in this situation? The company contracted to provide certain services but wasn't staffed to actually do so, nor well enough equipped to actually accomplish it (lack of packing materials.) How much stuff is being moved is completely irrelevant to this. The thing is movers have little in the way of repeat business, thus little incentive to treat the customer right.

andrewaylett 2y ago
The movers you want are the ones that are used by big organisations to relocate their people. A friend discovered a nearly-ideal way to move out of the house they'd been in for >30 years: she trained as a minister for the Church of England, and when she was placed in a role the church packed up the whole house (including all the fossils and archaeological finds they'd accumulated) and relocated them. That said, I've always hired a van for house moves, and it's going to have been a lot easier for me (never moving more than 20 miles since coming north for university) than for folk moving across the US.
rcstank 2y ago
There isn’t any indication of such, OP formed a strawman by suggesting the problem is because of hoarding.

globular-toast 2y ago

Multiple days? A proper hoarder will take multiple months if there's any stuff of value there. If it's just boxes of old milk bottle tops it might be easier. But a proper hoarder will have a box of milk bottle tops right next to a box of expensive tools or something. I've done the minimal lifestyle and found it tiring too. I got myself into a state where I wouldn't have any nice things because I would always be thinking it's one more thing to move when I inevitably do. But I don't want to move. I like being in one place and having a home. Hoarding is not the way, but it's ok to have this too.