4 ms·

it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

by chgs 1y ago

ignoramous 1y ago
I was like, surely not someone quoting al-A'raf (Qur'an 7:40) on the orange site but it turns out it is the New Testament (Luke 18:25).
- monadINtop 1y ago
  there's got to be at least one hafiz commenting on HN
WalterBright 1y ago
There are many interpretations of that line, and without the context it is in it is difficult to see which one is correct. Here's one: "Jesus' statement highlights the principle that salvation is a gift from God, not earned through good deeds or accumulated wealth. It emphasizes the need for humility and faith, rather than relying on material possessions or social standing."
- thfuran 1y ago
  That seems like, uh, motivated reasoning. Maybe if it were "for even a rich man" or "for a man, rich or poor," or something, but it's pretty clearly positioning riches in contrast to entering heaven.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    The interpretation I quoted came from Google. I did not make it up.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    If I understand correctly, at that time, riches were viewed as a sign of God's blessing. So it has the direction of "even those of you most in God's favor can't enter the kingdom of heaven". Which gets you back to something close to WalterBright's interpretation.
- chgs 1y ago
  It amazing how the wealthy and powerful try to twist a tale of the life of someone so openly socialist to instead claim it’s a story championing wealth. The general theme of “don’t worry about injustice now, things will be right after you die” is of course very strong to preserve the wealth. If you believe you will get your just rewards after you die, there’s less need to fight for an equitable world today.
ianbutler 1y ago
Forgive me, but as a non religious person the bible is no authority for or of me so if that's the best you have I find we're at an impasse.
- chgs 1y ago
  It’s a statement that was made by learned people 1500 years ago. Just because say A Christmas Carol or Star Trek or The Bible are works of fiction, it doesn’t mean they don’t have some wise observations, especially when taken in a cultural context.
  - ianbutler 1y ago
    That's nice, but A it's meaning is disputed as evidenced even in this thread and B I doubt it's applicable to current circumstances. Outside of those two concerns I have, generalities aren't usually that accurate and typically fall flat. Again if you have something stronger that's cool. I don't run my life on star trek or a christmas carol either. Edit: FWIW I’m not against frameworks, I just think ones built on reason, empirical evidence, and moral intuition tested against reality beat ones that rely on ancient metaphor and selective reinterpretation. If the goal is clarity, integrity and useful signposts for modern times, that’s a better starting point.

it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

by chgs 1y ago

it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

I was like, surely not someone quoting al-A'raf (Qur'an 7:40) on the orange site but it turns out it is the New Testament (Luke 18:25).

monadINtop 1y ago
there's got to be at least one hafiz commenting on HN

WalterBright 1y ago

There are many interpretations of that line, and without the context it is in it is difficult to see which one is correct. Here's one: "Jesus' statement highlights the principle that salvation is a gift from God, not earned through good deeds or accumulated wealth. It emphasizes the need for humility and faith, rather than relying on material possessions or social standing."

thfuran 1y ago
That seems like, uh, motivated reasoning. Maybe if it were "for even a rich man" or "for a man, rich or poor," or something, but it's pretty clearly positioning riches in contrast to entering heaven.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  The interpretation I quoted came from Google. I did not make it up.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  If I understand correctly, at that time, riches were viewed as a sign of God's blessing. So it has the direction of "even those of you most in God's favor can't enter the kingdom of heaven". Which gets you back to something close to WalterBright's interpretation.
chgs 1y ago
It amazing how the wealthy and powerful try to twist a tale of the life of someone so openly socialist to instead claim it’s a story championing wealth. The general theme of “don’t worry about injustice now, things will be right after you die” is of course very strong to preserve the wealth. If you believe you will get your just rewards after you die, there’s less need to fight for an equitable world today.

ianbutler 1y ago

Forgive me, but as a non religious person the bible is no authority for or of me so if that's the best you have I find we're at an impasse.

chgs 1y ago
It’s a statement that was made by learned people 1500 years ago. Just because say A Christmas Carol or Star Trek or The Bible are works of fiction, it doesn’t mean they don’t have some wise observations, especially when taken in a cultural context.
- ianbutler 1y ago
  That's nice, but A it's meaning is disputed as evidenced even in this thread and B I doubt it's applicable to current circumstances. Outside of those two concerns I have, generalities aren't usually that accurate and typically fall flat. Again if you have something stronger that's cool. I don't run my life on star trek or a christmas carol either. Edit: FWIW I’m not against frameworks, I just think ones built on reason, empirical evidence, and moral intuition tested against reality beat ones that rely on ancient metaphor and selective reinterpretation. If the goal is clarity, integrity and useful signposts for modern times, that’s a better starting point.