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I always remind myself when I have to go to the DMV[0] that I should plan on leaving with nothing more than another action or set of actions to take. I never en

I always remind myself when I have to go to the DMV[0] that I should plan on leaving with nothing more than another action or set of actions to take. I never enter the DMV expecting to complete a process, and the workers behind the counter always have this visible, visceral response when I DONT lose my fucking mind at their response to something. When I continue to be pleasant and understanding it’s like they suddenly come alive. It’s a depressing state of affairs because I understand exactly what they expect and why. 0: for non-Americans and for Americans from other states that may use different terms, the DMV is the department of motor vehicles in many US states and is the central place to get your drivers license, take the drivers test, register your car, get vehicle license plates, etc. Many processes that have many requirements that often are unfulfilled when people show up asking for things.

sails 1y ago
Interesting distinction is deliberate vs unintentional accountability sinks. DMV sounds more like incompetence than design. Compare with airline where the system is “better” when you have no recourse.
- mannykannot 1y ago
  Starting in four days, you will need, to board a commercial flight in the US or enter a federal government facility, either a passport, an 'enhanced' or 'real ID' driver's license, or one of a small class of alternatives. This has increased the burden on state DMVs, and any resulting deepening of the accountability sink is at least partly due to not doing anything to mitigate a predictable situation.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  The DMV is frequently just a case of under resourcing. For the most part, once you get to the counter your business can be handled in a few minutes. It’s the fact that it takes a while to get to the counter that’s the issue.
- tenacious_tuna 1y ago
  I think it's more than incompetence or accountability sinks; The DMV (and similar offices; Service {Canada, Ontario}, etc) are also the points at which the bureaucratic system of government interfaces with actual people as well. Boundary-layer components in any system are complicated because they have to distill complex input into abstractions understood by the system. I recently emigrated to Canada from the States and exchanged my US state driver's license for one in my now-home province, but there were a ton of hoops to jump through to add my US driving history to my provincial record. The process seemed to be somewhat exceptional as the supervisor for the DMV-equivalent had to guide the reps I spoke to on how to append the multiple-states-of-history that I had to offer. That's just a microcosm of what it wakes to distill the complexity of a person's life into pieces of verified information that a government can ingest. That's a lossy, complicated process that relies on both the 'customer' and the agent having a matching mutual understanding of what points of information can be agreed upon or, indeed, offered. In some cases it's not clear, either; my wife was told initially that she would have to hand over her license from two states ago to update her history, because the province's documentation showed it was still active (despite the fact that our immediately-previous state merrily punched a big VOID hole in it, and that it was expired), but when she returned after digging up her voided license they said they didn't even need to see it. That last bit was possibly 'incompetence'; possibly on the part of the Canadian agency, for not being consistent on if they needed to see the license or not, or the US states, for not being up to date on their record keeping, but again: these are complex systems tryng to maintain consistency. It's reasonable to expect noise.
dendodge 1y ago
Off-topic, but since you mention it, I've always been confused about what Americans always seem to be doing at the DMV. It seems to be a staple of pop culture that people are always there and the queue is always very long, but I've never known what anyone is actually trying to achieve. The DVLA in the UK doesn't have a high-street presence. I took my driving test once, then received my driving licence in the post. When it needs renewing, I can do it online. I tax my car online. MOTs (annual vehicle safety tests) happen at any local garage. I've never needed a new numberplate, but I think you can buy those online too. So what is it you all have to go to the DMV for? Because it sounds horrible.
- dpb001 1y ago
  In the US we don’t have a single DMV, but rather 50 separate DMV’s with varying degrees of efficiency and online capabilities. But in my state most routine things no longer require a physical visit. Licensing is pretty tightly controlled because in the US the card serves as a primary source of identification in the absence of a national ID card.
- bluedino 1y ago
  We have kiosks at grocery stores etc where we can get renew documents and print new license tabs etc, you can also do most things online and receive your new documents in the mail. You really only need to go there for driving tests (for teenagers or immigrants), completing private vehicle sales, and other odds and ends What I always found interesting is going there and people arguing with the workers about not having proof of insurance or a clear title etc.
- sneak 1y ago
  Until recently you couldn’t do much online with the government in the US. In Nevada, you can do most of the routine stuff online now, too.
- lantry 1y ago
  It's different in every state, but mostly it's an outdated stereotype that still sticks around even though it's not really indicative of reality. Most states let you do almost everything online, and when you do have to go in you can usually schedule an appointment and not wait in line at all.
dsego 1y ago
Kafkaesque bureaucracy, it's common to a lot of government institutions, they send you from one window to the next, there is always paperwork missing or something needs to be stamped. It seems like the whole process is not to serve the people but just there to perpetuate itself.

sails 1y ago

Interesting distinction is deliberate vs unintentional accountability sinks. DMV sounds more like incompetence than design. Compare with airline where the system is “better” when you have no recourse.

mannykannot 1y ago
Starting in four days, you will need, to board a commercial flight in the US or enter a federal government facility, either a passport, an 'enhanced' or 'real ID' driver's license, or one of a small class of alternatives. This has increased the burden on state DMVs, and any resulting deepening of the accountability sink is at least partly due to not doing anything to mitigate a predictable situation.
dghlsakjg 1y ago
The DMV is frequently just a case of under resourcing. For the most part, once you get to the counter your business can be handled in a few minutes. It’s the fact that it takes a while to get to the counter that’s the issue.
tenacious_tuna 1y ago
I think it's more than incompetence or accountability sinks; The DMV (and similar offices; Service {Canada, Ontario}, etc) are also the points at which the bureaucratic system of government interfaces with actual people as well. Boundary-layer components in any system are complicated because they have to distill complex input into abstractions understood by the system. I recently emigrated to Canada from the States and exchanged my US state driver's license for one in my now-home province, but there were a ton of hoops to jump through to add my US driving history to my provincial record. The process seemed to be somewhat exceptional as the supervisor for the DMV-equivalent had to guide the reps I spoke to on how to append the multiple-states-of-history that I had to offer. That's just a microcosm of what it wakes to distill the complexity of a person's life into pieces of verified information that a government can ingest. That's a lossy, complicated process that relies on both the 'customer' and the agent having a matching mutual understanding of what points of information can be agreed upon or, indeed, offered. In some cases it's not clear, either; my wife was told initially that she would have to hand over her license from two states ago to update her history, because the province's documentation showed it was still active (despite the fact that our immediately-previous state merrily punched a big VOID hole in it, and that it was expired), but when she returned after digging up her voided license they said they didn't even need to see it. That last bit was possibly 'incompetence'; possibly on the part of the Canadian agency, for not being consistent on if they needed to see the license or not, or the US states, for not being up to date on their record keeping, but again: these are complex systems tryng to maintain consistency. It's reasonable to expect noise.

dendodge 1y ago

Off-topic, but since you mention it, I've always been confused about what Americans always seem to be doing at the DMV. It seems to be a staple of pop culture that people are always there and the queue is always very long, but I've never known what anyone is actually trying to achieve. The DVLA in the UK doesn't have a high-street presence. I took my driving test once, then received my driving licence in the post. When it needs renewing, I can do it online. I tax my car online. MOTs (annual vehicle safety tests) happen at any local garage. I've never needed a new numberplate, but I think you can buy those online too. So what is it you all have to go to the DMV for? Because it sounds horrible.

dpb001 1y ago
In the US we don’t have a single DMV, but rather 50 separate DMV’s with varying degrees of efficiency and online capabilities. But in my state most routine things no longer require a physical visit. Licensing is pretty tightly controlled because in the US the card serves as a primary source of identification in the absence of a national ID card.
bluedino 1y ago
We have kiosks at grocery stores etc where we can get renew documents and print new license tabs etc, you can also do most things online and receive your new documents in the mail. You really only need to go there for driving tests (for teenagers or immigrants), completing private vehicle sales, and other odds and ends What I always found interesting is going there and people arguing with the workers about not having proof of insurance or a clear title etc.
sneak 1y ago
Until recently you couldn’t do much online with the government in the US. In Nevada, you can do most of the routine stuff online now, too.
lantry 1y ago
It's different in every state, but mostly it's an outdated stereotype that still sticks around even though it's not really indicative of reality. Most states let you do almost everything online, and when you do have to go in you can usually schedule an appointment and not wait in line at all.

dsego 1y ago

Kafkaesque bureaucracy, it's common to a lot of government institutions, they send you from one window to the next, there is always paperwork missing or something needs to be stamped. It seems like the whole process is not to serve the people but just there to perpetuate itself.