4 ms·

If you're able to save while renting, fair. Lots of people can't and get stuck in the cycle. In the UK at least, they're often just paying other peoples' mortg

If you're able to save while renting, fair. Lots of people can't and get stuck in the cycle. In the UK at least, they're often just paying other peoples' mortgages.

proneb1rd 1y ago
Not only UK, Europe in general is stuck in this nonsense. People buy properties, tenants pay their mortgage. In 15 years the property is yours mostly at the expense of someone else plus it gained in value. After owning it for so long and selling the property you probably pay lower capital gains from that too. Unless you put all that money in the right stocks in 2010, renting just doesn’t make all that much sense in this economy.
- angra_mainyu 1y ago
  > renting just doesn’t make all that much sense in this economy I disagree. Example scenario of many young Europeans in their 20s: - living in small or mid-sized city - job offer pops up paying significantly more across the country, either capital or one of the top cities - move and earn significantly more (even when adjusted for CoL) - continue progressing careerwise - job offer pops up elsewhere, possibly in other EU countries, pays significantly more A reasonable person in their 20s would allow themselves the chance to focus on professional career growth/salary growth up until they hit their mid-30s in which they can start considering settling in a given place and purchasing. Before that it's nonsensical. To give my own example, I went through various cities across several countries, starting at 12k, then a few years later job offer in another country for 33k, then a few years later at 54k, then at 115k, all before 30 years old (because I allowed myself to be anchor-free). The rest who stayed put in the same city? 12k to 30k in the same span of time. Anyone telling a person in their 20s: "buy a house and stay put" is giving terrible advice. The advice should be something along the lines of: "what you do in your 20s will bear fruits in your 30s, stay open-minded, adventurous, don't be afraid to burn out and discover your limits, see the world before your parents get old, and try your hardest".
chgs 1y ago
U.K. has a viscous cycle where if your parents are in commuting distance of London you can live with them for a few years and the money you save from not renting will fund a deposit. By the time you’re 30 you can then by and your career will have progressed If you can’t benefit from that then you spend that deposit on renting, which means you can’t buy in your 30s and are trapped in the rent cycle.
- walthamstow 1y ago
  It's a great advantage of people from the London area, especially inside zone 6 where travel is much cheaper than outside the TFL area. However, it is also likewise a trap. Prices have moved quicker than people can save, unless they have a lucrative career or live like a monk I know one person trapped like this, he's 30 this year. He has good savings but can't afford to buy on his own, bank won't lend enough on his salary, he needs a partner, but it's harder to find one when you live at home.
  - Tade0 1y ago
    I think it's a broader phenomenon. I was raised in the capital city of my country, but moved to a smaller city because I can work remotely and was largely priced out of the real estate market at home anyway. This allowed me to afford an apartment while my siblings who stayed are basically stuck renting.
- angra_mainyu 1y ago
  > If you can’t benefit from that then you spend that deposit on renting, which means you can’t buy in your 30s and are trapped in the rent cycle. I disagree with this - assuming the average white collar job (given HN), you _will_ progress salarywise from your early 20s to your early 30s. When I was a Jr. Software Dev at 23, I both didn't have the money to afford a house where I got all the job offers (which wouldn't make sense), nor would it have been a good idea given I would've wanted to stay open to chasing higher salaries after 1-3 years elsewhere (which I did). Maybe some decades ago it was common to spend your whole professional career in the same city, but as a dev I've had jobs pop up in different cities, heck even different countries!
angra_mainyu 1y ago
Odd, renting while I lived in the UK was the only way I was able to save. If I had attempted to buy, I would literally have financially died (not to mention wouldn't have been able to pursue better jobs elsewhere at the drop of a hat - month's notice).
akudha 1y ago
This is the thing that is so depressing. I know someone who owns 6 apartments, 5 of which he has rented out and his family is living in the 6th. Every couple of years, he will save enough money for the down payment, buy an apartment and his tenants end up paying the mortgage. His tenants will never be able to save enough money for a down payment, so they are stuck in a endless cycle of paying someone else's mortgage, just for the privilege of having a roof over their heads. If wages were fair, if mega corps like Blackrock weren't allowed to buy entire neighborhoods, maybe his tenants will have a fighting chance of owning a place for themselves, even if it is just a small two bedroom apartment. A dude I used to work with - he used to buy a couple of apartments in buildings right when they get started (he has contacts all over a major city). By the time the buildings are finished 3 years later, the "value" of those apartments have already gone up anywhere from 10 to 20 percent or more, depending on the area. He'd sell for a profit, rinse and repeat. His only goal is to flip - sometimes he buys apartments without even looking at them. Of course it is legal, but is it ethical? This whole thing is just depressing.

If you're able to save while renting, fair. Lots of people can't and get stuck in the cycle. In the UK at least, they're often just paying other peoples' mortgages.

proneb1rd 1y ago

Not only UK, Europe in general is stuck in this nonsense. People buy properties, tenants pay their mortgage. In 15 years the property is yours mostly at the expense of someone else plus it gained in value. After owning it for so long and selling the property you probably pay lower capital gains from that too. Unless you put all that money in the right stocks in 2010, renting just doesn’t make all that much sense in this economy.

angra_mainyu 1y ago
> renting just doesn’t make all that much sense in this economy I disagree. Example scenario of many young Europeans in their 20s: - living in small or mid-sized city - job offer pops up paying significantly more across the country, either capital or one of the top cities - move and earn significantly more (even when adjusted for CoL) - continue progressing careerwise - job offer pops up elsewhere, possibly in other EU countries, pays significantly more A reasonable person in their 20s would allow themselves the chance to focus on professional career growth/salary growth up until they hit their mid-30s in which they can start considering settling in a given place and purchasing. Before that it's nonsensical. To give my own example, I went through various cities across several countries, starting at 12k, then a few years later job offer in another country for 33k, then a few years later at 54k, then at 115k, all before 30 years old (because I allowed myself to be anchor-free). The rest who stayed put in the same city? 12k to 30k in the same span of time. Anyone telling a person in their 20s: "buy a house and stay put" is giving terrible advice. The advice should be something along the lines of: "what you do in your 20s will bear fruits in your 30s, stay open-minded, adventurous, don't be afraid to burn out and discover your limits, see the world before your parents get old, and try your hardest".

chgs 1y ago

U.K. has a viscous cycle where if your parents are in commuting distance of London you can live with them for a few years and the money you save from not renting will fund a deposit. By the time you’re 30 you can then by and your career will have progressed If you can’t benefit from that then you spend that deposit on renting, which means you can’t buy in your 30s and are trapped in the rent cycle.

walthamstow 1y ago
It's a great advantage of people from the London area, especially inside zone 6 where travel is much cheaper than outside the TFL area. However, it is also likewise a trap. Prices have moved quicker than people can save, unless they have a lucrative career or live like a monk I know one person trapped like this, he's 30 this year. He has good savings but can't afford to buy on his own, bank won't lend enough on his salary, he needs a partner, but it's harder to find one when you live at home.
- Tade0 1y ago
  I think it's a broader phenomenon. I was raised in the capital city of my country, but moved to a smaller city because I can work remotely and was largely priced out of the real estate market at home anyway. This allowed me to afford an apartment while my siblings who stayed are basically stuck renting.
angra_mainyu 1y ago
> If you can’t benefit from that then you spend that deposit on renting, which means you can’t buy in your 30s and are trapped in the rent cycle. I disagree with this - assuming the average white collar job (given HN), you _will_ progress salarywise from your early 20s to your early 30s. When I was a Jr. Software Dev at 23, I both didn't have the money to afford a house where I got all the job offers (which wouldn't make sense), nor would it have been a good idea given I would've wanted to stay open to chasing higher salaries after 1-3 years elsewhere (which I did). Maybe some decades ago it was common to spend your whole professional career in the same city, but as a dev I've had jobs pop up in different cities, heck even different countries!

angra_mainyu 1y ago

Odd, renting while I lived in the UK was the only way I was able to save. If I had attempted to buy, I would literally have financially died (not to mention wouldn't have been able to pursue better jobs elsewhere at the drop of a hat - month's notice).

akudha 1y ago

This is the thing that is so depressing. I know someone who owns 6 apartments, 5 of which he has rented out and his family is living in the 6th. Every couple of years, he will save enough money for the down payment, buy an apartment and his tenants end up paying the mortgage. His tenants will never be able to save enough money for a down payment, so they are stuck in a endless cycle of paying someone else's mortgage, just for the privilege of having a roof over their heads. If wages were fair, if mega corps like Blackrock weren't allowed to buy entire neighborhoods, maybe his tenants will have a fighting chance of owning a place for themselves, even if it is just a small two bedroom apartment. A dude I used to work with - he used to buy a couple of apartments in buildings right when they get started (he has contacts all over a major city). By the time the buildings are finished 3 years later, the "value" of those apartments have already gone up anywhere from 10 to 20 percent or more, depending on the area. He'd sell for a profit, rinse and repeat. His only goal is to flip - sometimes he buys apartments without even looking at them. Of course it is legal, but is it ethical? This whole thing is just depressing.