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The big part of this story which nobody is talking about is the fact that the app is literally controlled by a bunch of “former” Israeli intelligence officers.

by mdhb 1y ago

The big part of this story which nobody is talking about is the fact that the app is literally controlled by a bunch of “former” Israeli intelligence officers. Who now have what is arguably the worlds most valuable access out of anyone.

harrisrobin 1y ago
[flagged]
- uxp100 1y ago
  > Israel’s grip on DC’s balls is far too strong I more or less agree. > We’re literally an occupied nation The language of the US under occupation is a neonazi talking point, ZOG (Zionist Occupation Government) being a phrase neonazi morons like. Maybe a coincidence.
  - ObliviousLib 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - Tabular-Iceberg 1y ago
    I don't like the association any more than you, but what's the greater threat to the United States, the capture of its congress, administration and intelligence community by a foreign power, or a ragtag group of politically and culturally irrelevant LARPers?
    - uxp100 1y ago
      Honestly, I don’t think either is a true threat to the United States. I think that while Israel has been hugely influential the past 30 years, and had a close relationship longer on the intelligence front, that is far different than capture and occupation. Israel’s influence has been awful for the people of Iraq, Iran and Palestine, among others, but I don’t just disagree with the phrasing of occupation, I disagree with the premise. A significant part of why Israel gets so much of what it wants is because many of those in power in the US over the past 30 years like the role it plays in Middle East politics. (I’ve been using 30 years due to feeling that HW Bush was stronger with Israel on the particular issue of Palestine, but really, not an expert here at all)
  - arandomusername 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - smashah 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - anzjxbxkxkxb 1y ago
    [flagged]
wmf 1y ago
The US and many other countries have been buying Israeli surveillance tools for years or decades. I would hope that any message archiving is being done on an organization-owned server though.
- duskwuff 1y ago
  > I would hope that any message archiving is being done on an organization-owned server though. There's compelling evidence that the messages all pass through TM servers before being archived. https://www.404media.co/the-signal-clone-the-trump-admin-uses-was-hacked/ https://www.404media.co/the-signal-clone-the-trump-admin-use...
  - userbinator 1y ago
    There's compelling evidence that the messages all pass through TM servers before being archived. The question is where the E2E encryption goes between.
    - Klonoar 1y ago
      The E2E encryption is likely not even relevant, unless I'm missing something? The builds that are distributed would likely just send the plaintext un-encrypted message separately to the archive, and I'm guessing that means it goes right to TM servers before being dispatched elsewhere.
      - Y_Y 1y ago
        Ah yes, it's end-to-end alright, end-to-end cleartext.
- lysp 1y ago
  > The US and many other countries have been buying Israeli surveillance tools for years or decades. Yes, tools like Cellebrite and zero-day exploits. Those are tools which are used to spy on people outside of the government. This is a tool that has data created by the government.
woodruffw 1y ago
I don't think it's that big: USG procures defense and intelligence tech more or less constantly from Israel. It's unlikely that Israel would threaten that relationship (and the value they extract from it in terms of favorable relations) in exchange for military intelligence that's already shared with them. (I feel like I have to say this in every thread that insinuates something sinister about being a "former Israeli intelligence officer": the structure of Israel's military and mandatory service is such that just about everybody with technical skills serves in some kind of "intelligence" capacity. It's not a very big country. This is, of course, independent from any normative claims about Israel's government, politics, etc. -- it's what you'd expect in any small country that has mandatory military service with a significant intelligence component.)
- megous 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - stackskipton 1y ago
    >Some minor spying would not even register. I mean, they stole weapons grade Uranium from United States along with nuclear secrets and we just shrugged our shoulders: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-secret-nuclear-arsenal https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-...
    - megous 1y ago
      People here will flag easily searchable/verifiable information about what Israel did to the US in the past, just to protect the image of the US or whatever. Well, guess what, it doesn't work. It's just stupid.
      - immibis 1y ago
        It works.
  - woodruffw 1y ago
krunck 1y ago
It's not like Israel doesn't already have the highest level of access to the administration's plans. Canada could be made the 51st state and Israel would still have more access to the Trump administrations plans. There is some sort of strong connection between the USA and Israel. What that is, I don't know.
lesuorac 1y ago
I know it's pretty fun to do the espionage angle with this comment. But is this really just evidence that a mandatory draft is actually good economic policy? Having a forced networking event where a bunch of similar skilled individual meet each other seems to be producing a ton of economic value for Israel.
- mdhb 1y ago
  This isn’t a one or the other thing. You’re just bringing up an unrelated point.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  ? But in the US, people get the same - if not better - economic value from universities, or working together at the same companies, or being in the same spaces, or meetups, etc.
freeamz 1y ago
>The big part of this story which nobody is talking about is the fact that the app is literally controlled by a bunch of “former” Israeli intelligence officers. Who now have what is arguably the worlds most valuable access out of anyone. You are just talking about the clone, NOT signal foundation and the dev team?

by mdhb 1y ago

harrisrobin 1y ago

[flagged]

uxp100 1y ago
> Israel’s grip on DC’s balls is far too strong I more or less agree. > We’re literally an occupied nation The language of the US under occupation is a neonazi talking point, ZOG (Zionist Occupation Government) being a phrase neonazi morons like. Maybe a coincidence.
- ObliviousLib 1y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Tabular-Iceberg 1y ago
  I don't like the association any more than you, but what's the greater threat to the United States, the capture of its congress, administration and intelligence community by a foreign power, or a ragtag group of politically and culturally irrelevant LARPers?
  - uxp100 1y ago
    Honestly, I don’t think either is a true threat to the United States. I think that while Israel has been hugely influential the past 30 years, and had a close relationship longer on the intelligence front, that is far different than capture and occupation. Israel’s influence has been awful for the people of Iraq, Iran and Palestine, among others, but I don’t just disagree with the phrasing of occupation, I disagree with the premise. A significant part of why Israel gets so much of what it wants is because many of those in power in the US over the past 30 years like the role it plays in Middle East politics. (I’ve been using 30 years due to feeling that HW Bush was stronger with Israel on the particular issue of Palestine, but really, not an expert here at all)
- arandomusername 1y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- smashah 1y ago
  [flagged]
- anzjxbxkxkxb 1y ago
  [flagged]

wmf 1y ago

The US and many other countries have been buying Israeli surveillance tools for years or decades. I would hope that any message archiving is being done on an organization-owned server though.

duskwuff 1y ago
> I would hope that any message archiving is being done on an organization-owned server though. There's compelling evidence that the messages all pass through TM servers before being archived. https://www.404media.co/the-signal-clone-the-trump-admin-uses-was-hacked/ https://www.404media.co/the-signal-clone-the-trump-admin-use...
- userbinator 1y ago
  There's compelling evidence that the messages all pass through TM servers before being archived. The question is where the E2E encryption goes between.
  - Klonoar 1y ago
    The E2E encryption is likely not even relevant, unless I'm missing something? The builds that are distributed would likely just send the plaintext un-encrypted message separately to the archive, and I'm guessing that means it goes right to TM servers before being dispatched elsewhere.
    - Y_Y 1y ago
      Ah yes, it's end-to-end alright, end-to-end cleartext.
lysp 1y ago
> The US and many other countries have been buying Israeli surveillance tools for years or decades. Yes, tools like Cellebrite and zero-day exploits. Those are tools which are used to spy on people outside of the government. This is a tool that has data created by the government.

woodruffw 1y ago

I don't think it's that big: USG procures defense and intelligence tech more or less constantly from Israel. It's unlikely that Israel would threaten that relationship (and the value they extract from it in terms of favorable relations) in exchange for military intelligence that's already shared with them. (I feel like I have to say this in every thread that insinuates something sinister about being a "former Israeli intelligence officer": the structure of Israel's military and mandatory service is such that just about everybody with technical skills serves in some kind of "intelligence" capacity. It's not a very big country. This is, of course, independent from any normative claims about Israel's government, politics, etc. -- it's what you'd expect in any small country that has mandatory military service with a significant intelligence component.)

megous 1y ago
[flagged]
- stackskipton 1y ago
  >Some minor spying would not even register. I mean, they stole weapons grade Uranium from United States along with nuclear secrets and we just shrugged our shoulders: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-secret-nuclear-arsenal https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-...
  - megous 1y ago
    People here will flag easily searchable/verifiable information about what Israel did to the US in the past, just to protect the image of the US or whatever. Well, guess what, it doesn't work. It's just stupid.
    - immibis 1y ago
      It works.
- woodruffw 1y ago

krunck 1y ago

It's not like Israel doesn't already have the highest level of access to the administration's plans. Canada could be made the 51st state and Israel would still have more access to the Trump administrations plans. There is some sort of strong connection between the USA and Israel. What that is, I don't know.

lesuorac 1y ago

I know it's pretty fun to do the espionage angle with this comment. But is this really just evidence that a mandatory draft is actually good economic policy? Having a forced networking event where a bunch of similar skilled individual meet each other seems to be producing a ton of economic value for Israel.

mdhb 1y ago
This isn’t a one or the other thing. You’re just bringing up an unrelated point.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
? But in the US, people get the same - if not better - economic value from universities, or working together at the same companies, or being in the same spaces, or meetups, etc.

freeamz 1y ago

>The big part of this story which nobody is talking about is the fact that the app is literally controlled by a bunch of “former” Israeli intelligence officers. Who now have what is arguably the worlds most valuable access out of anyone. You are just talking about the clone, NOT signal foundation and the dev team?