3 ms·

You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world

You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world. I hate the constant updates. I hate the end-of-life OS forks. I hate the limited programming languages. I hate that there's this complicated gatekeeping, where you have to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to install a program if it hasn't been blessed by some specific official organization. And I hate that all the mobile phones come locked up (if not to a mobile carrier, then to an operating system, only able to be maintained by a specific 3rd party, and the device becomes a useless brick once that specific 3rd party stops supporting that specific operating system on that specific device). Regular computers work much better. A common architecture. Run any OS built for that common architecture. Run any program that has executable machine code for that common architecture. You can install a different OS when the old one is unsupported. You can keep using the hardware until the hardware dies, not just until the company who made it drops that hardware's support. Common hardware components so every OS doesn't have to support every different individual model of computer. No gatekeeping of the programs you can install. No extra hoops. Just a machine that can run whatever you want it to. I just want a computer in my pocket. I don't want all the extra bullshit.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cholantesh 2y ago
I'm a Fedora guy through and through but...did Ubuntu Touch die on the vine? It seemed like it was approaching some approximation of this.
- nosioptar 2y ago
  It's still around,but only supports a few devices. Last I looked, it didn't work with volte.
virtue3 2y ago
I agree... but also that computer in our pocket has our entire life wrapped in it. The desktop has some mitigations against this. PWNing your mobile device could completely wreck you in a lot of ways. I switched from android to iphone because someone 0-day'd me. I'm not saying it can't happen on iOS or something; just less likely - and mostly because of these restrictions.
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  Yep. With exception to apps that don’t interact with the internet in any way whatsoever (not even opening downloaded files), which is pretty rare, keeping up with library updates is pretty important if one doesn’t want to make them ever more of a sitting duck as time goes on.
- Dedime 2y ago
  People keep talking about having been hacked, but it's honestly baffling to me. I'm 28. I started using computers on a regular basis when I was ~9 years old, playing RuneScape. Since then, I've spend probably 10s of thousands of hours on the internet - downloading torrents, signing up for sketchy Russian websites, doing online banking, testing experimental software downloaded over HTTP from a .xyz domain. I graduated high school, went to a technical college for compsci, graduated, worked in helpdesk, desktop support, IT management, and more recently DevOps. I develop software using all sorts of package managers, and used hundreds of thousands of unvetted software packages that arrived as dependencies. Not once have I, or anyone I've been responsible for, been hacked. No crypto, no viruses, nothing. What the heck are you guys doing getting your Android phones hacked???? Like I only use a modicum of common sense these days, but I guess I've just been lucky and have been the odd one out. I still enjoy reading HN arrivals about security though, so maybe I just have always been slightly more security conscience? In any case, this is just a stream of consciousness / gut feeling comment. Don't put too much weight into it, I haven't.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    The way in which getting hacked works these days is that you as the user will never know. They will just silently exfil your data, and also use you to get to others. You will be none the wiser.
f33d5173 2y ago
>Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world. You can do that. Pretty easily. Having to manually update software is pretty annoying though, so why not automate it?
sneak 2y ago
They make normal computers that small now. You can buy one. Did we all forget Bonzai Buddy? That model doesn’t work for most people. Most people want the latest version at all times, and don’t want to have to sysadmin their phone.
tonyhart7 2y ago
"You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world." pretty sure you can do that, just use non android/ios mobile os kali linux,ubuntu mobile os is up there, no one force you to use android/ios system
gavinray 2y ago
> "Just let me download and run an application" This is how Android works?... You can download an ".apk" file and just install + run it, like an ".exe" or ".msi"
- xigoi 2y ago
  You have to install the app. You can’t just run it directly, as opposed to executables on desktop computers.
  - gavinray 2y ago
    That's because .apk's are essentially ZIP archives -- they contain assets required for the executable as well as a manifest declaring permissions. That's a bit of a handwavy explanation, there's more to it than that, but that's the gist of why you can't "directly" run apps on Android.
    - treyd 2y ago
      And you kinda still can, in a terminal emulator, it just can't behave like an app since it won't integrate with the system UI.
    - black3r 2y ago
      The assets aren't extracted during installation though. The APK is copied as is, the executable files are extracted to a cache, but that can technically be done at runtime. More important parts of the installation process is configuring the default permission set for the application, creating its linux user and it's data directories. (In Android every app runs under its own linux user, and by default only has access to a specific data directory created for that app, to access other directories you need broader filesystem permissions). But this could technically still be done at runtime. The bigger problem requiring installation would be features where the OS needs to start the app up - notifications, or app's background processes. Although even there some kind of temporary installation at runtime could work...
- Padlock4543 2y ago
jeroenhd 2y ago
So just download the APK from github manually, then? That's all this app does anyway.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  level down the actions you described to the intellect of the average smart phone user. I'm not being sarcastic. the average smart phone user have been dumbed down by corporations so they don't even need to add technical walls to their walled garden, as to avoid regulation. if google don't prevent you from installing apks, they will never face the court decision apple just received. but users won't act in a way they lose their 30pct fee either.
carstenhag 2y ago
App Stores have nothing to little to do with what you are complaining about. As we are talking about Android: - Play Store: makes sure developers don't do nefarious stuff with the user's data. Yes, for us power users some restrictions are simply wrong, I agree. Use an alternative store for that. But what it does well is optimizing performance: instead of 1 apk with 4 ABI supports (or 4 apk with 1 ABI support each), it can use app bundles to serve you only what your device needs. Also, the Play Store learns what parts of the app are commonly used and contributed this back to make performance improvements for all other users (I was amazed the first time I heard about this). - F-Droid, any other store: ensures your privacy/no-restriction/etc needs are covered. What they all have in common: your app gets updates! Do you want bugs to be there forever? Do you want to go through 100 apps and manually install updates? Please, no one wants to do that. On your Unix machine you also don't manually check all updates using your package manager, and what changelog each has.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cholantesh 2y ago

I'm a Fedora guy through and through but...did Ubuntu Touch die on the vine? It seemed like it was approaching some approximation of this.

nosioptar 2y ago
It's still around,but only supports a few devices. Last I looked, it didn't work with volte.

virtue3 2y ago

I agree... but also that computer in our pocket has our entire life wrapped in it. The desktop has some mitigations against this. PWNing your mobile device could completely wreck you in a lot of ways. I switched from android to iphone because someone 0-day'd me. I'm not saying it can't happen on iOS or something; just less likely - and mostly because of these restrictions.

cosmic_cheese 2y ago
Yep. With exception to apps that don’t interact with the internet in any way whatsoever (not even opening downloaded files), which is pretty rare, keeping up with library updates is pretty important if one doesn’t want to make them ever more of a sitting duck as time goes on.
Dedime 2y ago
People keep talking about having been hacked, but it's honestly baffling to me. I'm 28. I started using computers on a regular basis when I was ~9 years old, playing RuneScape. Since then, I've spend probably 10s of thousands of hours on the internet - downloading torrents, signing up for sketchy Russian websites, doing online banking, testing experimental software downloaded over HTTP from a .xyz domain. I graduated high school, went to a technical college for compsci, graduated, worked in helpdesk, desktop support, IT management, and more recently DevOps. I develop software using all sorts of package managers, and used hundreds of thousands of unvetted software packages that arrived as dependencies. Not once have I, or anyone I've been responsible for, been hacked. No crypto, no viruses, nothing. What the heck are you guys doing getting your Android phones hacked???? Like I only use a modicum of common sense these days, but I guess I've just been lucky and have been the odd one out. I still enjoy reading HN arrivals about security though, so maybe I just have always been slightly more security conscience? In any case, this is just a stream of consciousness / gut feeling comment. Don't put too much weight into it, I haven't.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  The way in which getting hacked works these days is that you as the user will never know. They will just silently exfil your data, and also use you to get to others. You will be none the wiser.

f33d5173 2y ago

>Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world. You can do that. Pretty easily. Having to manually update software is pretty annoying though, so why not automate it?

sneak 2y ago

They make normal computers that small now. You can buy one. Did we all forget Bonzai Buddy? That model doesn’t work for most people. Most people want the latest version at all times, and don’t want to have to sysadmin their phone.

tonyhart7 2y ago

"You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world." pretty sure you can do that, just use non android/ios mobile os kali linux,ubuntu mobile os is up there, no one force you to use android/ios system

gavinray 2y ago

> "Just let me download and run an application" This is how Android works?... You can download an ".apk" file and just install + run it, like an ".exe" or ".msi"

xigoi 2y ago
You have to install the app. You can’t just run it directly, as opposed to executables on desktop computers.
- gavinray 2y ago
  That's because .apk's are essentially ZIP archives -- they contain assets required for the executable as well as a manifest declaring permissions. That's a bit of a handwavy explanation, there's more to it than that, but that's the gist of why you can't "directly" run apps on Android.
  - treyd 2y ago
    And you kinda still can, in a terminal emulator, it just can't behave like an app since it won't integrate with the system UI.
  - black3r 2y ago
    The assets aren't extracted during installation though. The APK is copied as is, the executable files are extracted to a cache, but that can technically be done at runtime. More important parts of the installation process is configuring the default permission set for the application, creating its linux user and it's data directories. (In Android every app runs under its own linux user, and by default only has access to a specific data directory created for that app, to access other directories you need broader filesystem permissions). But this could technically still be done at runtime. The bigger problem requiring installation would be features where the OS needs to start the app up - notifications, or app's background processes. Although even there some kind of temporary installation at runtime could work...
Padlock4543 2y ago

jeroenhd 2y ago

So just download the APK from github manually, then? That's all this app does anyway.

1oooqooq 2y ago
level down the actions you described to the intellect of the average smart phone user. I'm not being sarcastic. the average smart phone user have been dumbed down by corporations so they don't even need to add technical walls to their walled garden, as to avoid regulation. if google don't prevent you from installing apks, they will never face the court decision apple just received. but users won't act in a way they lose their 30pct fee either.

carstenhag 2y ago

App Stores have nothing to little to do with what you are complaining about. As we are talking about Android: - Play Store: makes sure developers don't do nefarious stuff with the user's data. Yes, for us power users some restrictions are simply wrong, I agree. Use an alternative store for that. But what it does well is optimizing performance: instead of 1 apk with 4 ABI supports (or 4 apk with 1 ABI support each), it can use app bundles to serve you only what your device needs. Also, the Play Store learns what parts of the app are commonly used and contributed this back to make performance improvements for all other users (I was amazed the first time I heard about this). - F-Droid, any other store: ensures your privacy/no-restriction/etc needs are covered. What they all have in common: your app gets updates! Do you want bugs to be there forever? Do you want to go through 100 apps and manually install updates? Please, no one wants to do that. On your Unix machine you also don't manually check all updates using your package manager, and what changelog each has.