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>Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. This is statement is somewhere between ignorant and an outright lie. Ther

>Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. This is statement is somewhere between ignorant and an outright lie. There's a bunch of rules governing how many hours truckers can work. And those regulations are mostly followed. And when they're not it's typically some local outfit delivering fuel or groceries, not the long haul mega fleets https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-hours-service-regulations https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hours-service/summary-...

throwaway48476 2y ago
That's the problem. The human alertness cycle can't be forced to align with the ELT logged time schedule. Truckers used to drive longer when they felt awake and choose their own rest times as long as it averaged out.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  You're preaching to the choir here but there's less than zero chance you could ever get a regulatory agency to understand something like that.
- dylan604 2y ago
  How is this different from regulations for airline pilots requiring minimum downtime between flights? Or any other industry that requires minimum turn times. I've worked for feature film shoots that had to alter shoot schedules because days went long and the minimum required turn time forced the next day's call time to be pushed. It's always fun switching from a day to night schedule, and these minimum turn times are a god send
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Film industry is likely a union rule not a federal one. Aviation the limits are much stricter than trucking.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      film industry is most definitely a union rule, but that's not the point. that's my personal experience with a minimum turnaround, and it is something that makes a huge difference. applying that to what pilots/truckers experience was my way of being empathetic rather than just sympathetic. i've personally been there, done that. i've also been on those stupid jobs where you work late into the night, yet the pointy haired bosses still expect you to be at your desk at the regular time. that absolutely sucks, and will not allow that nonsense to happen to me again.
kerkeslager 2y ago
> There's a bunch of rules governing how many hours truckers can work. True! > And those regulations are mostly followed. Very false, at least as of 5 years ago. I worked with trucker biometric data which for a large company which runs trucks all over North America. The company itself keeps its hands clean: they required drivers to keep strict manual logs and have strict rules about compliance with regulation. But at every step of the way, the incentives are for drivers to lie in these logs. Particularly, per-mile pay incentivizes driving a lot of miles at times when there's less traffic on the road (night). If your truck isn't moving, you aren't getting paid, and drivers want to get back to their families and hobbies, so they minimize time spent sleeping in their truck in a random location. Additionally, missed deadlines can significantly impact your pay, and deadlines are set at levels which cut very close to regulation, so that any delays force drivers to break regulation to meet the deadline. Biometric data shows flagrant violations of regulation, which we can't share with anyone (including the company), because it's medical data protected under HIPAA. The manual logs are corroborated by an electronic black box on each truck, but these logs aren't checked unless something goes wrong, at which point the company can use to show the trucker was in violation of their stated policies to reduce liability. I've only seen data from one company (which I cannot name due to non-disclosure) but it's my understanding that most of the company's driver incentives are structured similarly to the reputable parts of the trucking industry. Other companies have mile quotas (or inversely, mile bonuses) which further incentivize lying in logs. There are extremely exploitative owner/operator outfits which force drivers to work desperately to pay off their trucks, likely resulting in worse violations. So sure, on paper, the letter of the regulations are followed, but that's definitely not what's happening on the road. > And when they're not it's typically some local outfit delivering fuel or groceries, not the long haul mega fleets Even if there were true (which it isn't), a head on collision with a sleeping local fuel delivery driver is just as deadly as a head on collision with a long haul trucker. This is irrelevant.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  The E-log requirement all but eliminates drivers cooking the books. The book cooking happens when the company hires a sketchy firm out of eastern europe to provide the software who then cook the books on the back end. These carriers are a small minority (lest they become juicy targets for enforcement) and have high turnover.

throwaway48476 2y ago

That's the problem. The human alertness cycle can't be forced to align with the ELT logged time schedule. Truckers used to drive longer when they felt awake and choose their own rest times as long as it averaged out.

potato3732842 2y ago
You're preaching to the choir here but there's less than zero chance you could ever get a regulatory agency to understand something like that.
dylan604 2y ago
How is this different from regulations for airline pilots requiring minimum downtime between flights? Or any other industry that requires minimum turn times. I've worked for feature film shoots that had to alter shoot schedules because days went long and the minimum required turn time forced the next day's call time to be pushed. It's always fun switching from a day to night schedule, and these minimum turn times are a god send
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Film industry is likely a union rule not a federal one. Aviation the limits are much stricter than trucking.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    film industry is most definitely a union rule, but that's not the point. that's my personal experience with a minimum turnaround, and it is something that makes a huge difference. applying that to what pilots/truckers experience was my way of being empathetic rather than just sympathetic. i've personally been there, done that. i've also been on those stupid jobs where you work late into the night, yet the pointy haired bosses still expect you to be at your desk at the regular time. that absolutely sucks, and will not allow that nonsense to happen to me again.

kerkeslager 2y ago

> There's a bunch of rules governing how many hours truckers can work. True! > And those regulations are mostly followed. Very false, at least as of 5 years ago. I worked with trucker biometric data which for a large company which runs trucks all over North America. The company itself keeps its hands clean: they required drivers to keep strict manual logs and have strict rules about compliance with regulation. But at every step of the way, the incentives are for drivers to lie in these logs. Particularly, per-mile pay incentivizes driving a lot of miles at times when there's less traffic on the road (night). If your truck isn't moving, you aren't getting paid, and drivers want to get back to their families and hobbies, so they minimize time spent sleeping in their truck in a random location. Additionally, missed deadlines can significantly impact your pay, and deadlines are set at levels which cut very close to regulation, so that any delays force drivers to break regulation to meet the deadline. Biometric data shows flagrant violations of regulation, which we can't share with anyone (including the company), because it's medical data protected under HIPAA. The manual logs are corroborated by an electronic black box on each truck, but these logs aren't checked unless something goes wrong, at which point the company can use to show the trucker was in violation of their stated policies to reduce liability. I've only seen data from one company (which I cannot name due to non-disclosure) but it's my understanding that most of the company's driver incentives are structured similarly to the reputable parts of the trucking industry. Other companies have mile quotas (or inversely, mile bonuses) which further incentivize lying in logs. There are extremely exploitative owner/operator outfits which force drivers to work desperately to pay off their trucks, likely resulting in worse violations. So sure, on paper, the letter of the regulations are followed, but that's definitely not what's happening on the road. > And when they're not it's typically some local outfit delivering fuel or groceries, not the long haul mega fleets Even if there were true (which it isn't), a head on collision with a sleeping local fuel delivery driver is just as deadly as a head on collision with a long haul trucker. This is irrelevant.

potato3732842 2y ago
The E-log requirement all but eliminates drivers cooking the books. The book cooking happens when the company hires a sketchy firm out of eastern europe to provide the software who then cook the books on the back end. These carriers are a small minority (lest they become juicy targets for enforcement) and have high turnover.