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Any musician will tell you most music isn't original. You just don't have the ear for it. You telling me Green Day's songs are all unique and original? Even jaz

Any musician will tell you most music isn't original. You just don't have the ear for it. You telling me Green Day's songs are all unique and original? Even jazz uses 6-2-5-1's over and over. Unless you only listen to avante garde prog rock or something, all of music is derivative. And that's ok. Every song being a unique snowflake isn't important. If you like it or it makes you feel something, that's all that matters.

Velorivox 1y ago
All books are derivative too, the English ones use the same 26 characters over and over.
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  You're intentionally missing the point, but ok.
- marci 1y ago
  The 26 characters with a thousand @font-faces.
  - codedokode 1y ago
    It's actually surprising how many ways and styles humans invented to draw the same letters; that amount of talent and creativity AI models do not have, at least now.
thuuuomas 1y ago
> If you like it or it makes you feel something, that's all that matters. You’re right! > Even jazz uses 6-2-5-1's over and over. You’re not even wrong! I wonder if jazz does anything else besides that?
tern 1y ago
Green Day (was) definitely original. The level of unoriginality I'm talking about goes way beyond "pop music is the same old chords from the 50s" or "the 70s were the golden age and everything since then is derivative." What's the basis for this? Unfortunately it's hard to describe, but I've listened to a wide variety of popular and niche genres my whole life with a specific eye toward appreciating all the different ways people appreciate music and I know when something feels new. Even most (or all?) pop music feels new. If it wasn't, I don't think it would be popular. Sure, it's all derivative, but what makes music enjoyable is when it combines influences in a fresh way. "French house polka" achieved by doing a statistical blend of the two genres just isn't that interesting—it misses so many ways that things are combined by artists—specific details of the texture of the sound, how it's recorded, cultural references, tons of tiny little influences from specific artists and other genres, etc. I've tried very specific prompts in Suno and it's not even close to useful for someone who knows what they're doing. The image generators are hardly better—things overwhelmingly trend toward a fixed set of specific styles that are well-represented in the training sets. This critique falls down in certain areas though. Using tools like Suno to come up with songwriting ideas can be fantastic—as long as you have the taste to curate the outputs and feed it into your own creative process. It's also fantastic for creating vocal samples, and I'm sure it'll crush it for functional music (advertisements, certain types of social media) in short order
- XenophileJKO 1y ago
  If you think song and image generators can't make creative things, the problem is between the seat and keyboard. It is unfortunately that simple. 4o as an image generator can create out of distribution images because it literally works at a conceptual level. Suno currently is limited architecturally to in distribution components, so trying to create instruments or vocal styles it never heard won't work. The parts that you can work in are a vast and rich creative space.
  - otabdeveloper4 1y ago
    Tell me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music without telling me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music.
    - XenophileJKO 1y ago
      :) I'll bite... https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0cb1fd881919867820db3ee3850 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0cb1fd881919867820db3ee3850 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c027e10c8191936ac1e86adb5bcd https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c027e10c8191936ac1e86adb5bcd https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf6174488191b2b93498059c4352 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf6174488191b2b93498059c4352 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815be7921b4819191544de9f06b336f https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815be7921b4819191544de9f06b336f https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf16568081918ef3d26d0572701d https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf16568081918ef3d26d0572701d https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c00655888191a717f4ef8f895af3 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c00655888191a717f4ef8f895af3 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0583198819184c4f01b8fa26ae0 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0583198819184c4f01b8fa26ae0 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0acb6fc8191a8a2ec0c71df307a https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0acb6fc8191a8a2ec0c71df307a https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c233ef00819189e0713abd0f3080 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c233ef00819189e0713abd0f3080 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c265b0948191801b5c970451d705 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c265b0948191801b5c970451d705 For bonus points.. the tail-less crocodile.. https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c29c1bf081918c791447441c400e https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c29c1bf081918c791447441c400e You just lack imagination, like I said.. there are almost no limits but pixel density and aspect ratio currently.

Velorivox 1y ago

All books are derivative too, the English ones use the same 26 characters over and over.

bongodongobob 1y ago
You're intentionally missing the point, but ok.
marci 1y ago
The 26 characters with a thousand @font-faces.
- codedokode 1y ago
  It's actually surprising how many ways and styles humans invented to draw the same letters; that amount of talent and creativity AI models do not have, at least now.

thuuuomas 1y ago

> If you like it or it makes you feel something, that's all that matters. You’re right! > Even jazz uses 6-2-5-1's over and over. You’re not even wrong! I wonder if jazz does anything else besides that?

tern 1y ago

Green Day (was) definitely original. The level of unoriginality I'm talking about goes way beyond "pop music is the same old chords from the 50s" or "the 70s were the golden age and everything since then is derivative." What's the basis for this? Unfortunately it's hard to describe, but I've listened to a wide variety of popular and niche genres my whole life with a specific eye toward appreciating all the different ways people appreciate music and I know when something feels new. Even most (or all?) pop music feels new. If it wasn't, I don't think it would be popular. Sure, it's all derivative, but what makes music enjoyable is when it combines influences in a fresh way. "French house polka" achieved by doing a statistical blend of the two genres just isn't that interesting—it misses so many ways that things are combined by artists—specific details of the texture of the sound, how it's recorded, cultural references, tons of tiny little influences from specific artists and other genres, etc. I've tried very specific prompts in Suno and it's not even close to useful for someone who knows what they're doing. The image generators are hardly better—things overwhelmingly trend toward a fixed set of specific styles that are well-represented in the training sets. This critique falls down in certain areas though. Using tools like Suno to come up with songwriting ideas can be fantastic—as long as you have the taste to curate the outputs and feed it into your own creative process. It's also fantastic for creating vocal samples, and I'm sure it'll crush it for functional music (advertisements, certain types of social media) in short order

XenophileJKO 1y ago
If you think song and image generators can't make creative things, the problem is between the seat and keyboard. It is unfortunately that simple. 4o as an image generator can create out of distribution images because it literally works at a conceptual level. Suno currently is limited architecturally to in distribution components, so trying to create instruments or vocal styles it never heard won't work. The parts that you can work in are a vast and rich creative space.
- otabdeveloper4 1y ago
  Tell me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music without telling me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music.
  - XenophileJKO 1y ago
    :) I'll bite... https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0cb1fd881919867820db3ee3850 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0cb1fd881919867820db3ee3850 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c027e10c8191936ac1e86adb5bcd https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c027e10c8191936ac1e86adb5bcd https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf6174488191b2b93498059c4352 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf6174488191b2b93498059c4352 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815be7921b4819191544de9f06b336f https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815be7921b4819191544de9f06b336f https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf16568081918ef3d26d0572701d https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815bf16568081918ef3d26d0572701d https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c00655888191a717f4ef8f895af3 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c00655888191a717f4ef8f895af3 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0583198819184c4f01b8fa26ae0 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0583198819184c4f01b8fa26ae0 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0acb6fc8191a8a2ec0c71df307a https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c0acb6fc8191a8a2ec0c71df307a https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c233ef00819189e0713abd0f3080 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c233ef00819189e0713abd0f3080 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c265b0948191801b5c970451d705 https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c265b0948191801b5c970451d705 For bonus points.. the tail-less crocodile.. https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c29c1bf081918c791447441c400e https://chatgpt.com/s/m_6815c29c1bf081918c791447441c400e You just lack imagination, like I said.. there are almost no limits but pixel density and aspect ratio currently.