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Love the site, and impressed by what they generated there. With that said... I'm starting to feel like music might be the last thing to be affected by Generativ

by jppope 1y ago

Love the site, and impressed by what they generated there. With that said... I'm starting to feel like music might be the last thing to be affected by Generative AI. I IV V with different accents over the music and different drum sounds is fine, but thats not really music. It's pretty bad when you can pick out the chords progression in 5 sec. Cue the infamous 4-chord song skit by Axis of Awesome.

netdevphoenix 1y ago
> I IV V with different accents over the music and different drum sounds is fine, but thats not really music Music is more about the human that made it and their relation to you than the sound properties themselves. Same as other art. The more indirect the music process and the further you are from the living experience of the human creator, the less it resembles art. I feel art is more of an spectrum rather than a binary switch and the metric is how much direct human involvement did the audio experience have in terms that you can relate to. Remove the human completely and you just have sound. It is likely that something like bepop, gabber or industrial synthwave would have been considered "sounds" rather than art by medieval folks or Mesopotamian people if they heard the sounds without knowing whether the source was human or not. Same with us if we were to heard some music from the year 3200 or 4500, we would likely not consider it music.
- jppope 1y ago
  thats exactly what I'm feeling. GenAi for images or text is useful, it feels like the resolved values can be added to things or accomplish a purpose. The GenAI music feels like sound (as you put it) - like great its there, but thats not music.
postexitus 1y ago
I actually am of the exact opposite opinion. With image / text / video, I am much more able to differentiate between AI vs human. However in music - there is so much badly done human music as well, for me it's nearly impossible to understand the difference between a badly done human music and a high fidelity AI music (the chord progression, happens as often in human music). Moreover, I have put Suno AI on playlist mode before and it's actually been enjoyable, and I am a big AI sceptic! Sometimes even more so than Spotify's own (although they've been accused of putting AI music on playlists as well - but I am fairly sure the weak stuff that put me off was by humans - did I say I cannot differentiate?). Especially some music genres - like Japanese Vocaloid ; Power Metal, some country, where certain genre specific things overwhelm the piece, AI does a very good job in mimicking those from the best of the best and put meagre efforts to shame. Here is one AI song I generated in an earlier version of Suno - let me know if anything stands out as AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s and another I recorded in my studio with an artist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc
- computerdork 1y ago
  Agreed, am a musician too, and especially for popular music, AI music is as complex and often indistinguishable from music created by humans. Kind of sad, especially for composers (which I am trying to be). Ah well, can only keep moving forward.
  - brookst 1y ago
    I’m only an occasional hobbyist, but I am super excited for how AI can empower me to write ideas I want, but which are beyond my ability and / or not possible using normal tools. I really think we’ll see a revolution in music theory once it’s easy to incorporate microtonal, multi-tempo, and other crazy stuff. Also as we can blur the line between instrument and audio; why can’t my piano morph into an organ over the course of a piece? (I’m familiar with the Korg Morpheus and similar; I mean in a much more real sense).
    - computerdork 1y ago
      I do agree with you about AI music powering a revolution - it really creates some amazing music and it's still early in the technology - But for us musicians who studied literally decades to learn all these techniques (harmony, counterpoint, music form, polyrhythms, piano, partimento...), it's painful to see that others can create a piece of music in seconds which took us a lifetime to learn how to do (I write mainly classical music and it was a punch in the gut when I first heard Udio's classical music generation. Very impressive - sigh). An no disrepect towards anyone using AI to create music, it is here and unstoppable, but I don't currently use generative AI in music myself. Yeah, think for performed works for a live audience (at least in classical music), most people want to hear music composed by humans (for the most part). Hopefully, will stay this way for awhile, otherwise, I've been going down a road that goes nowhere. Ah well, wouldn't be the first time:)
      - brookst 1y ago
        100% agreed. But I think it is like any other revolution that pushes human creativity to a higher level of abstraction. Someone on HN, don’t remember who, made the observation that some artists mistake mastery of tools for the art, whereas artists who focus on the actual art can roll with changes to the tools.
bongodongobob 1y ago
Suno is way more than that. Listen to the jazz tags or something, you're being way over dismissive here.
- NexRebular 1y ago
  But why would I ever want to listen something generated by someone else when I can just generate infinite amount of the same stuff myself?
  - bongodongobob 1y ago
    Because it sounds good, you can do both.
    - NexRebular 1y ago
      But what's the point of spending time and thought for music prompted by others? What I can generate sounds exactly as good and has the exact same value...
      - brookst 1y ago
        Can’t you say the same thing about why listen to human jazz musicians?
        NexRebular 1y ago
        I am not a jazz musician. I can't generate their music, all the nuances, the improvisation or the feeling... in other words the human factor of their craft 1 to 1 with a press of a button.
spaceman_2020 1y ago
It’s not replacing the music I listen to, but its definitely capable of replacing the random music I hear on the radio

by jppope 1y ago

netdevphoenix 1y ago

> I IV V with different accents over the music and different drum sounds is fine, but thats not really music Music is more about the human that made it and their relation to you than the sound properties themselves. Same as other art. The more indirect the music process and the further you are from the living experience of the human creator, the less it resembles art. I feel art is more of an spectrum rather than a binary switch and the metric is how much direct human involvement did the audio experience have in terms that you can relate to. Remove the human completely and you just have sound. It is likely that something like bepop, gabber or industrial synthwave would have been considered "sounds" rather than art by medieval folks or Mesopotamian people if they heard the sounds without knowing whether the source was human or not. Same with us if we were to heard some music from the year 3200 or 4500, we would likely not consider it music.

jppope 1y ago
thats exactly what I'm feeling. GenAi for images or text is useful, it feels like the resolved values can be added to things or accomplish a purpose. The GenAI music feels like sound (as you put it) - like great its there, but thats not music.

postexitus 1y ago

I actually am of the exact opposite opinion. With image / text / video, I am much more able to differentiate between AI vs human. However in music - there is so much badly done human music as well, for me it's nearly impossible to understand the difference between a badly done human music and a high fidelity AI music (the chord progression, happens as often in human music). Moreover, I have put Suno AI on playlist mode before and it's actually been enjoyable, and I am a big AI sceptic! Sometimes even more so than Spotify's own (although they've been accused of putting AI music on playlists as well - but I am fairly sure the weak stuff that put me off was by humans - did I say I cannot differentiate?). Especially some music genres - like Japanese Vocaloid ; Power Metal, some country, where certain genre specific things overwhelm the piece, AI does a very good job in mimicking those from the best of the best and put meagre efforts to shame. Here is one AI song I generated in an earlier version of Suno - let me know if anything stands out as AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s and another I recorded in my studio with an artist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc

computerdork 1y ago
Agreed, am a musician too, and especially for popular music, AI music is as complex and often indistinguishable from music created by humans. Kind of sad, especially for composers (which I am trying to be). Ah well, can only keep moving forward.
- brookst 1y ago
  I’m only an occasional hobbyist, but I am super excited for how AI can empower me to write ideas I want, but which are beyond my ability and / or not possible using normal tools. I really think we’ll see a revolution in music theory once it’s easy to incorporate microtonal, multi-tempo, and other crazy stuff. Also as we can blur the line between instrument and audio; why can’t my piano morph into an organ over the course of a piece? (I’m familiar with the Korg Morpheus and similar; I mean in a much more real sense).
  - computerdork 1y ago
    I do agree with you about AI music powering a revolution - it really creates some amazing music and it's still early in the technology - But for us musicians who studied literally decades to learn all these techniques (harmony, counterpoint, music form, polyrhythms, piano, partimento...), it's painful to see that others can create a piece of music in seconds which took us a lifetime to learn how to do (I write mainly classical music and it was a punch in the gut when I first heard Udio's classical music generation. Very impressive - sigh). An no disrepect towards anyone using AI to create music, it is here and unstoppable, but I don't currently use generative AI in music myself. Yeah, think for performed works for a live audience (at least in classical music), most people want to hear music composed by humans (for the most part). Hopefully, will stay this way for awhile, otherwise, I've been going down a road that goes nowhere. Ah well, wouldn't be the first time:)
    - brookst 1y ago
      100% agreed. But I think it is like any other revolution that pushes human creativity to a higher level of abstraction. Someone on HN, don’t remember who, made the observation that some artists mistake mastery of tools for the art, whereas artists who focus on the actual art can roll with changes to the tools.

bongodongobob 1y ago

Suno is way more than that. Listen to the jazz tags or something, you're being way over dismissive here.

NexRebular 1y ago
But why would I ever want to listen something generated by someone else when I can just generate infinite amount of the same stuff myself?
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  Because it sounds good, you can do both.
  - NexRebular 1y ago
    But what's the point of spending time and thought for music prompted by others? What I can generate sounds exactly as good and has the exact same value...
    - brookst 1y ago
      Can’t you say the same thing about why listen to human jazz musicians?
      - NexRebular 1y ago
        I am not a jazz musician. I can't generate their music, all the nuances, the improvisation or the feeling... in other words the human factor of their craft 1 to 1 with a press of a button.

spaceman_2020 1y ago

It’s not replacing the music I listen to, but its definitely capable of replacing the random music I hear on the radio