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It’s a common trope among urban Indians. They’re enamoured by the simple and rustic living of the villages and think of them as noble savages. I grew up in rur

It’s a common trope among urban Indians. They’re enamoured by the simple and rustic living of the villages and think of them as noble savages. I grew up in rural India and I always recommend people to read Dr. Ambedkar’s rights on this subject.

Labov 1y ago
Dr. Ambedkar is somebody more people in the United States should know about. I was a briefly involved with the Triratna Buddhist Community and read some of Sangharakshita's writing, and he discusses Ambedkar. Real interesting stuff.
- FlyingSnake 1y ago
  TBH Dr. Ambedkar’s Buddhism is very different from what the other traditions preach. It was an answer to the prevailing jātivada, but unfortunately it didn’t manage to make the dent he envisioned. I’ve grown up around Navayana and have many friends from Kagyu, Theravada and other traditions. (All this to say I know Bauddha Dharma intimately)
  - Labov 1y ago
    All part of the great warp and weft. It's a fascinating thing to learn about, how all these traditions intersect. Seattle, the city I live in, recently became the first to ban caste discrimination. I didn't think much of it at the time, but nowadays maybe there's something to be learned from jātivada, the many forms it comes in, and the response to it. Reading Leslie Feinberg right now, interesting working class perspective.
    - FlyingSnake 1y ago
      There’s a difference between casteism and jātivada which is not easy to explain in a short comment. Ambedkar’s “ Annihilation of Caste” and A.M. Hocart’s works provide interesting insight on it.
alephnerd 1y ago
Hamta isn't even really rural. It's a bunch of homestays just outside of Manali, and is similar to Pahalgam. My family is from rural HP/JK/Ladakh, and a homestay like Hamta is not representative of rural HP/JK/LA/UK. > They’re enamoured by the simple and rustic living of the villages and think of them as noble savages I think it goes both ways. They either over-idealize it, or overly berate it. I feel it's also state dependent to a certain extent, with some states better at rural administrative capacity (eg. Kerala, HP, PB, JK) than others (eg. KA, TG, GJ). Something I've noticed is states that don't have a primary city tend to have slightly better rural administrative capacity, as it at least incentivizes small town or T3/4 economies to develop instead of being invested in a single mega city.
- FlyingSnake 1y ago
  Thanks for adding extra context. I wasn’t aware of Hamta. My experience is in rural central and South India but I’ve travelled extensively in Garhwal. How different would you say rural JK/HP/LA/UK is? Your last para rings true. Goa, Kerala, CG and Odisha have better rural administration than MH, TL or KA because of the absence of heavyweight cities.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    > How different would you say rural JK/HP/LA/UK is? Rural UK is much poorer than rural HP and JK. The administrative structure of UK is very top heavy (everything is decided in Dehradun), and Dehradun+Haridwar have caused tourism and real estate induced Dutch Disease to arise. JK and HP also have a tourism economy, but also have a strong industrial base (pharma in HP, heavy industry in JK) plus more investment in higher value rural industries like food processing and fruit cultivation. HP and JK also have a bottom up political culture with panchayats in a district coalescing into District Planning Committee that includes state civil service cadre and the MLA, so local governance is much more responsive, and has the resources and capacity to invest in infra like cold storage or make the case for an MNC to invest in manufacturing. Basically, if local government and administration is actually given priority beyond haphazard panchayats, it makes it easier to attract build industries and a semi-industrial rural economy. > Kerala, CG and Odisha have better rural administration than MH, TL or KA because of the absence of heavyweight cities. Political culture is also more top-down in states like MH/TG/KA, where the CM office tends to have inordinate control over local planning and panchayat+local government funding is minimal Even if their administrations had some interest in rural economic development (which in those states they don't), they wouldn't even have the bandwidth because there are too many districts. This is why local government needs to be invested in by states, but locals are the ones who know best about their needs and capabilities.

Labov 1y ago

Dr. Ambedkar is somebody more people in the United States should know about. I was a briefly involved with the Triratna Buddhist Community and read some of Sangharakshita's writing, and he discusses Ambedkar. Real interesting stuff.

FlyingSnake 1y ago
TBH Dr. Ambedkar’s Buddhism is very different from what the other traditions preach. It was an answer to the prevailing jātivada, but unfortunately it didn’t manage to make the dent he envisioned. I’ve grown up around Navayana and have many friends from Kagyu, Theravada and other traditions. (All this to say I know Bauddha Dharma intimately)
- Labov 1y ago
  All part of the great warp and weft. It's a fascinating thing to learn about, how all these traditions intersect. Seattle, the city I live in, recently became the first to ban caste discrimination. I didn't think much of it at the time, but nowadays maybe there's something to be learned from jātivada, the many forms it comes in, and the response to it. Reading Leslie Feinberg right now, interesting working class perspective.
  - FlyingSnake 1y ago
    There’s a difference between casteism and jātivada which is not easy to explain in a short comment. Ambedkar’s “ Annihilation of Caste” and A.M. Hocart’s works provide interesting insight on it.

alephnerd 1y ago

Hamta isn't even really rural. It's a bunch of homestays just outside of Manali, and is similar to Pahalgam. My family is from rural HP/JK/Ladakh, and a homestay like Hamta is not representative of rural HP/JK/LA/UK. > They’re enamoured by the simple and rustic living of the villages and think of them as noble savages I think it goes both ways. They either over-idealize it, or overly berate it. I feel it's also state dependent to a certain extent, with some states better at rural administrative capacity (eg. Kerala, HP, PB, JK) than others (eg. KA, TG, GJ). Something I've noticed is states that don't have a primary city tend to have slightly better rural administrative capacity, as it at least incentivizes small town or T3/4 economies to develop instead of being invested in a single mega city.

FlyingSnake 1y ago
Thanks for adding extra context. I wasn’t aware of Hamta. My experience is in rural central and South India but I’ve travelled extensively in Garhwal. How different would you say rural JK/HP/LA/UK is? Your last para rings true. Goa, Kerala, CG and Odisha have better rural administration than MH, TL or KA because of the absence of heavyweight cities.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  > How different would you say rural JK/HP/LA/UK is? Rural UK is much poorer than rural HP and JK. The administrative structure of UK is very top heavy (everything is decided in Dehradun), and Dehradun+Haridwar have caused tourism and real estate induced Dutch Disease to arise. JK and HP also have a tourism economy, but also have a strong industrial base (pharma in HP, heavy industry in JK) plus more investment in higher value rural industries like food processing and fruit cultivation. HP and JK also have a bottom up political culture with panchayats in a district coalescing into District Planning Committee that includes state civil service cadre and the MLA, so local governance is much more responsive, and has the resources and capacity to invest in infra like cold storage or make the case for an MNC to invest in manufacturing. Basically, if local government and administration is actually given priority beyond haphazard panchayats, it makes it easier to attract build industries and a semi-industrial rural economy. > Kerala, CG and Odisha have better rural administration than MH, TL or KA because of the absence of heavyweight cities. Political culture is also more top-down in states like MH/TG/KA, where the CM office tends to have inordinate control over local planning and panchayat+local government funding is minimal Even if their administrations had some interest in rural economic development (which in those states they don't), they wouldn't even have the bandwidth because there are too many districts. This is why local government needs to be invested in by states, but locals are the ones who know best about their needs and capabilities.