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> The mighty armies of Carthage? Sent packing in the First Punic War. The first Punic War was won by the Romans by beating the mighty NAVIES of Carthage at sea

> The mighty armies of Carthage? Sent packing in the First Punic War. The first Punic War was won by the Romans by beating the mighty NAVIES of Carthage at sea. Carthage was historically a sea power. And the Romans did it by adopting new ideas and tactics.

inglor_cz 1y ago
Most important wars in the Ancient Mediterranean had a major naval component. It can be argued that the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD was caused, or at least massively hastened, by two negative naval events: a) the Battle of Cartagena (461), where the Roman navy was defeated by the Vandals, partly due to some captains being corrupt [0]. This prevented Majorian, the last great Western emperor, from reconquering North Africa; and b) the Battle of Cape Bon (468), again a massive failed effort to crush the Vandals [1] It is somewhat obscure to modern readers, but Vandals were probably more dangerous at sea than on land. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_(461) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_(461) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Bon_(468) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Bon_(468)
- hangonhn 1y ago
  This is so dang cool!!! No I didn’t know that the Vandals were more dangerous at sea. Thank you for sharing!!
deleted 1y ago
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johnnyjeans 1y ago
In my view, it was won because the Elder Council underestimated the threat. Had they known how the defense of Sicily was going to go, they could have easily afforded to hire 50,000 more celts and turned them out onto the Italic peninsula to raise absolute hell. But hindsight is 20/20. The Romans bet big and stretched their logistics to the absolute limit to march every conscript they could muster down to Sicily. The Italic peninsula was completely undefended. If word had reached the army (many of whom were gang-pressed enemies of the Latins) that their villages were burning, the overwhelming majority would have revolted and fled to try and make it back to their homes. There would have been no recourse for the Romans, they spent literally everything they had coercing their army together and getting them down south. The Canaanites are a resilient kind of people, the Greeks created the Phoenix as a metaphor for their civilizational tenacity. They can bounce back from anything. But the Elder Council made a very grave mistake. After the first Punic war they did bounce back, but they never had a chance to stop the Roman barbarians ever again. Their imperialism of the other Italic tribes had become ingrained, and it allowed them to grow too strong for a non-martial culture to castrate. The grave danger of underestimation is the most important lesson to take away from the Punic wars, imo.
primitivesuave 1y ago
Just to add something to your last sentence - I believe I read somewhere in Polybius that the Romans had never built a warship until the whole skirmish in Sicily kicked off the first Punic War, and they managed to do so by copying a Carthaginian vessel that had washed up ashore. They made one important improvement with an articulating walkway (I seem to remember it being called "the eagle" but I'm not sure) - they could swing it around and lock it to another ship to create a bridge for foot soldiers to attack. Edit: It was called a raven or corvus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(boarding_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(boarding_device)

inglor_cz 1y ago

Most important wars in the Ancient Mediterranean had a major naval component. It can be argued that the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD was caused, or at least massively hastened, by two negative naval events: a) the Battle of Cartagena (461), where the Roman navy was defeated by the Vandals, partly due to some captains being corrupt [0]. This prevented Majorian, the last great Western emperor, from reconquering North Africa; and b) the Battle of Cape Bon (468), again a massive failed effort to crush the Vandals [1] It is somewhat obscure to modern readers, but Vandals were probably more dangerous at sea than on land. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_(461) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_(461) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Bon_(468) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Bon_(468)

hangonhn 1y ago
This is so dang cool!!! No I didn’t know that the Vandals were more dangerous at sea. Thank you for sharing!!

deleted 1y ago

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johnnyjeans 1y ago

In my view, it was won because the Elder Council underestimated the threat. Had they known how the defense of Sicily was going to go, they could have easily afforded to hire 50,000 more celts and turned them out onto the Italic peninsula to raise absolute hell. But hindsight is 20/20. The Romans bet big and stretched their logistics to the absolute limit to march every conscript they could muster down to Sicily. The Italic peninsula was completely undefended. If word had reached the army (many of whom were gang-pressed enemies of the Latins) that their villages were burning, the overwhelming majority would have revolted and fled to try and make it back to their homes. There would have been no recourse for the Romans, they spent literally everything they had coercing their army together and getting them down south. The Canaanites are a resilient kind of people, the Greeks created the Phoenix as a metaphor for their civilizational tenacity. They can bounce back from anything. But the Elder Council made a very grave mistake. After the first Punic war they did bounce back, but they never had a chance to stop the Roman barbarians ever again. Their imperialism of the other Italic tribes had become ingrained, and it allowed them to grow too strong for a non-martial culture to castrate. The grave danger of underestimation is the most important lesson to take away from the Punic wars, imo.

primitivesuave 1y ago

Just to add something to your last sentence - I believe I read somewhere in Polybius that the Romans had never built a warship until the whole skirmish in Sicily kicked off the first Punic War, and they managed to do so by copying a Carthaginian vessel that had washed up ashore. They made one important improvement with an articulating walkway (I seem to remember it being called "the eagle" but I'm not sure) - they could swing it around and lock it to another ship to create a bridge for foot soldiers to attack. Edit: It was called a raven or corvus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(boarding_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(boarding_device)