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> Zoho was in talks with the Department of Electronics & IT under India’s Semiconductor Mission, and reports reveal that they had set aside some $200 million fo

> Zoho was in talks with the Department of Electronics & IT under India’s Semiconductor Mission, and reports reveal that they had set aside some $200 million for a pilot 28 nm wafer line in Tamil Nadu. My guess is 28nm is already an aging node, and by the time any fab based on it becomes operational, the technology will be even more obsolete. It’s hard to predict what the market will look like then. You can't expect a private company to pour billions into a dicey market. This is a case where free-market capitalism doesn’t work. You really want a government pitching tens of billions of dollars to get to the cutting edge fast, not expecting companies to foot the bill and just dangle a few incentives. Frankly, for India, the entire semiconductor ambition feels like putting the cart before the horse. It won't create jobs, most value will be captured by fab owners. The smarter approach would be top-down: start with component assembly, then build up CNC machining, injection molding, and other foundational industries that can fill in the gap for components. Only after that should we talk about high-value semiconductor manufacturing. India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. We import stuff like lighters, toys, and basic electronics. Why do we want to make the giant leap to semiconductors? Unfortunately, Indian policymakers are more interested in optics than in long-term industrial planning.

newusertoday 1y ago
india does not lacks it, its not price competitive as compared to china which has better supply chain and economy of scale. India and other countries are not going in fab for jobs but for self-reliance. Going for high-value semicon later is similar to the logic of removing poverty first before investing in space tech. It doesn't work that way. India had sound policies it was quite ahead of time when it created SCL, check this video for more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBYV6QWDIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBYV6QWDIo it does lacks execution though and had some bad luck. India does have 130nm plants right now its obsolete node but works fine for low volume needs of its govt.
- SanjayMehta 1y ago
  When SCL was created we were probably 2-3 generations behind. Now we’re 14 generations behind. Jumping to 28nm would be progress, especially for mundane devices which go into automotive and white goods.
MangoCoffee 1y ago
>My guess is 28nm is already an aging node, and by the time any fab based on it becomes operational, the technology will be even more obsolete that's why the investment is 700 million. its an aging node but a lot of product included military hardware doesn't require more than 28.
- chneu 1y ago
  I work in semiconductor manufacturing r&d. The general public forgets that old nodes are the vast majority of what's made in fabs. Cars, most appliances, military, etc all run on old nodes. They're not running cutting edge stuff. Desktop PCs and gaming stuff is nothing compared to the reliable bulk orders that last years for a car line or a line of washing machines.
vram22 1y ago
>India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. Completely false or misinformed. India has been doing many different kinds of manufacturing for many years. A few google searches and some of their results, not in any order: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industry_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industry_in_India (a big one) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industrial_corridors_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industrial_corridor... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Manufacturing_companies_of_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Manufacturing_compa... (another big one) industrial manufacturing in India Wikipedia https://www.ibef.org/industry/manufacturing-sector-india https://www.ibef.org/industry/manufacturing-sector-india AI Overview: +4 India has a significant industrial manufacturing sector, contributing heavily to its economy and global trade. Key areas of manufacturing include textiles, steel, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, and electronics. The country has the world's second-largest steel production and is a major exporter of textiles and clothing. The "Make in India" initiative aims to boost manufacturing growth and create jobs. Major Industries and Their Importance: Iron and Steel: India is the world's second-largest steel producer, with major players like SAIL and private companies like Jindal Stainless and JSW Steel. Textiles: India is a major exporter of textiles and clothing, with a strong domestic textile industry serving both local and global markets. Automobiles: Chennai, Pune, and the National Capital Region (NCR) are major hubs for automobile manufacturing. Pharmaceuticals: Hyderabad and Bangalore are key centers for pharmaceutical manufacturing. Electronics: The electronics sector is experiencing growth, with government initiatives to promote domestic manufacturing. Other Key Industries: The Indian economy also features significant manufacturing in areas like cement, paper, and petrochemicals.
- dartharva 1y ago
  Steel, textiles, pharma, auto etc. are all relatively "primitive" stages of manufacturing. Parent comment is probably talking about manufacturing precision tools and complex micro-electronics at a gigantic global-level scale like China and Taiwan, as is required for semiconductor-related stuff. India's electronics manufacturing is absolutely nowhere near industry leaders.
  - 1y ago
fuzztester 1y ago
>India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. We import stuff like lighters, toys, and basic electronics. Why do we want to make the giant leap to semiconductors? I already answered you more than once about your misconceptions or misinformation about Indian basic manufacturing, in my sibling comments to this one. And as others have said, importing is not done only due to inability to make the products at home. Sometimes it is done for pure cost /benefit reasons. That should be pretty damn obvious to anyone, but looks like you missed that out in your assessment. Even so-called first-world / developed countries do it. What do you think the outsourcing from such countries to India for software development is about? It is about exactly that, at least some. You are a software guy, so you should know this. I am one too. If you work for them, do you think they would hire you in India, all other things been the same, if your price was the same as equal people in the US or Europe? Of course not. It would be easier for them to deal with their local people than someone partway or halfway across the world. Get real. Do you know that we also export plenty of things, many of which go to developed countries too, and to other developing countries, and that some of the latter cannot manufacture some of the things we do? As for your point about why we manufacture or are trying to manufacture semiconductors, that has also been answered by others, so I will not comment. Having some amount of self-reliance is the answer. Not just profit. Same for our space program, satellites, etc, which I did comment about in reply to somebody else in this thread.
- shubhamjain 1y ago
  It seems you're the one who's plenty misinformed. Most countries outsource when labour costs in their own country inch higher and it makes sense to use cheaper external labour supply. Same is not the case with India, where labour costs are still extremely cheap. Even with sky-high import duties, we're not competing with China. I never said we don't manufacture. There are few notable industries that we are decent at and export it as well: two wheelers, pharma. But we manufacture only teeny tiny bit of mass-manufactured goods, especially electronics. Self-reliance makes no sense when you're trying to one component out of hundreds involved. Sure, it won't be entirely useless, it will decouple some of the chip imports for defense and auto, but it will do nothing to bootstrap the electronics industry.

newusertoday 1y ago

india does not lacks it, its not price competitive as compared to china which has better supply chain and economy of scale. India and other countries are not going in fab for jobs but for self-reliance. Going for high-value semicon later is similar to the logic of removing poverty first before investing in space tech. It doesn't work that way. India had sound policies it was quite ahead of time when it created SCL, check this video for more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBYV6QWDIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBYV6QWDIo it does lacks execution though and had some bad luck. India does have 130nm plants right now its obsolete node but works fine for low volume needs of its govt.

SanjayMehta 1y ago
When SCL was created we were probably 2-3 generations behind. Now we’re 14 generations behind. Jumping to 28nm would be progress, especially for mundane devices which go into automotive and white goods.

MangoCoffee 1y ago

>My guess is 28nm is already an aging node, and by the time any fab based on it becomes operational, the technology will be even more obsolete that's why the investment is 700 million. its an aging node but a lot of product included military hardware doesn't require more than 28.

chneu 1y ago
I work in semiconductor manufacturing r&d. The general public forgets that old nodes are the vast majority of what's made in fabs. Cars, most appliances, military, etc all run on old nodes. They're not running cutting edge stuff. Desktop PCs and gaming stuff is nothing compared to the reliable bulk orders that last years for a car line or a line of washing machines.

vram22 1y ago

>India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. Completely false or misinformed. India has been doing many different kinds of manufacturing for many years. A few google searches and some of their results, not in any order: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industry_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industry_in_India (a big one) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industrial_corridors_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Industrial_corridor... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Manufacturing_companies_of_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Manufacturing_compa... (another big one) industrial manufacturing in India Wikipedia https://www.ibef.org/industry/manufacturing-sector-india https://www.ibef.org/industry/manufacturing-sector-india AI Overview: +4 India has a significant industrial manufacturing sector, contributing heavily to its economy and global trade. Key areas of manufacturing include textiles, steel, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, and electronics. The country has the world's second-largest steel production and is a major exporter of textiles and clothing. The "Make in India" initiative aims to boost manufacturing growth and create jobs. Major Industries and Their Importance: Iron and Steel: India is the world's second-largest steel producer, with major players like SAIL and private companies like Jindal Stainless and JSW Steel. Textiles: India is a major exporter of textiles and clothing, with a strong domestic textile industry serving both local and global markets. Automobiles: Chennai, Pune, and the National Capital Region (NCR) are major hubs for automobile manufacturing. Pharmaceuticals: Hyderabad and Bangalore are key centers for pharmaceutical manufacturing. Electronics: The electronics sector is experiencing growth, with government initiatives to promote domestic manufacturing. Other Key Industries: The Indian economy also features significant manufacturing in areas like cement, paper, and petrochemicals.

dartharva 1y ago
Steel, textiles, pharma, auto etc. are all relatively "primitive" stages of manufacturing. Parent comment is probably talking about manufacturing precision tools and complex micro-electronics at a gigantic global-level scale like China and Taiwan, as is required for semiconductor-related stuff. India's electronics manufacturing is absolutely nowhere near industry leaders.
- 1y ago

fuzztester 1y ago

>India lacks even the most basic manufacturing. We import stuff like lighters, toys, and basic electronics. Why do we want to make the giant leap to semiconductors? I already answered you more than once about your misconceptions or misinformation about Indian basic manufacturing, in my sibling comments to this one. And as others have said, importing is not done only due to inability to make the products at home. Sometimes it is done for pure cost /benefit reasons. That should be pretty damn obvious to anyone, but looks like you missed that out in your assessment. Even so-called first-world / developed countries do it. What do you think the outsourcing from such countries to India for software development is about? It is about exactly that, at least some. You are a software guy, so you should know this. I am one too. If you work for them, do you think they would hire you in India, all other things been the same, if your price was the same as equal people in the US or Europe? Of course not. It would be easier for them to deal with their local people than someone partway or halfway across the world. Get real. Do you know that we also export plenty of things, many of which go to developed countries too, and to other developing countries, and that some of the latter cannot manufacture some of the things we do? As for your point about why we manufacture or are trying to manufacture semiconductors, that has also been answered by others, so I will not comment. Having some amount of self-reliance is the answer. Not just profit. Same for our space program, satellites, etc, which I did comment about in reply to somebody else in this thread.

shubhamjain 1y ago
It seems you're the one who's plenty misinformed. Most countries outsource when labour costs in their own country inch higher and it makes sense to use cheaper external labour supply. Same is not the case with India, where labour costs are still extremely cheap. Even with sky-high import duties, we're not competing with China. I never said we don't manufacture. There are few notable industries that we are decent at and export it as well: two wheelers, pharma. But we manufacture only teeny tiny bit of mass-manufactured goods, especially electronics. Self-reliance makes no sense when you're trying to one component out of hundreds involved. Sure, it won't be entirely useless, it will decouple some of the chip imports for defense and auto, but it will do nothing to bootstrap the electronics industry.