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>>> overnment agencies have paid for versions of encrypted messaging apps that also have archive abilities before. In 2021, Customs and Border Protection (CBP)

>>> overnment agencies have paid for versions of encrypted messaging apps that also have archive abilities before. In 2021, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) paid encrypted app company Wickr $700,000. This seems like a perfect use case to support Signal. Have large, corporate or govt entities, pay for a custom fork of the app, built by the app developers themselves. Why is telemessage getting the money ? Does the Signal Foundation not make it easy to do paid fork implementations ?

mmooss 1y ago
Maybe Signal needs to devote all their resources to develping the main app, which is their mission - secure communications for the general public.
- bigfatkitten 1y ago
  They have ‘interesting’ priorities. MobileCoin is prioritised ahead of allowing an iPad-like secondary device experience on Android tablets, for example.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    What makes you say that? I would guess they would do both if it was worthwhile. Android tablets and iPads have different capabilities under the hood - maybe the requirements aren't possible on Android tablets? In any case, saying their priorities are misaligned because they don't scratch your particular itch is making a mountain of a molehill.
    - bigfatkitten 1y ago
      It has nothing to do with device capabilities or technical effort, and there are client forks which support it. Signal have simply made a conscious choice to disallow it. https://community.signalusers.org/t/android-tablet-support/5590/262 https://community.signalusers.org/t/android-tablet-support/5...
      - mmooss 1y ago
        The link seems unrelated to our discussion? What evidence do you have of Signal's decision and reasoning?
bigfatkitten 1y ago
Wickr is owned by AWS, and only has a government/enterprise product now. The personal version has been discontinued.
- andrewinardeer 1y ago
  Pardon my ignorance here, does this mean that governments approach Wickr and buy licences to use their encrypted messenger? If so, what does Wickr do better than other encrypted messenger apps?
  - bigfatkitten 1y ago
    In short, paperwork. Government has a ton of policy requirements around data retention, audit logging, where their data is stored, who can access it etc, as well as technical requirements for things like encryption algorithms. They also have a requirement to operate on isolated networks. It is difficult for an ordinary consumer messaging app to meet these requirements. Matrix is really the only competitor.
    - SurfShoulders 1y ago
      [dead]
dmix 1y ago
90% of the work is probably compliance and gov contract hoop jumping, not the code.
- inhumantsar 1y ago
  that seems optimistic tbh. I'd guess 70/30 lobbying/compliance.
steamrolled 1y ago
If Signal becomes financially dependent on government contracts, the govt gains a lot of leverage over the app. I'm not sure that's a great position for this particular platform to be in.
- Nifty3929 1y ago
  This is a good point - but at some point we have to trust someone. I feel that the Signal folks are worth trusting. Plus it's open source, so the more technie among us can meaningfully audit what's going on. That's not foolproof, but it does seem better than most alternatives. Certainly it's better for the gov't to pay Signal than to try to do it themselves.
  - Freak_NL 1y ago
    > I feel that the Signal folks are worth trusting. The MobileCoin integration and the long standing refusal to support a way to use the messenger without using a phone number (or a smartphone at all) make me wary. To me they sit pretty much on the same level of trust as Meta's WhatsApp, which is a sad thing to have to conclude.
    - cantrecallmypwd 1y ago
      This. Session does desktop and mobile cheerfully without leaving metadata enabling government real-time location tracking.
      - omnimus 1y ago
        And cheerfuly does bunch of other things https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/ https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/
photonthug 1y ago
Katherine Maher, the CEO of NPR, chairs the board of the Signal Foundation.

mmooss 1y ago

Maybe Signal needs to devote all their resources to develping the main app, which is their mission - secure communications for the general public.

bigfatkitten 1y ago
They have ‘interesting’ priorities. MobileCoin is prioritised ahead of allowing an iPad-like secondary device experience on Android tablets, for example.
- mmooss 1y ago
  What makes you say that? I would guess they would do both if it was worthwhile. Android tablets and iPads have different capabilities under the hood - maybe the requirements aren't possible on Android tablets? In any case, saying their priorities are misaligned because they don't scratch your particular itch is making a mountain of a molehill.
  - bigfatkitten 1y ago
    It has nothing to do with device capabilities or technical effort, and there are client forks which support it. Signal have simply made a conscious choice to disallow it. https://community.signalusers.org/t/android-tablet-support/5590/262 https://community.signalusers.org/t/android-tablet-support/5...
    - mmooss 1y ago
      The link seems unrelated to our discussion? What evidence do you have of Signal's decision and reasoning?

bigfatkitten 1y ago

Wickr is owned by AWS, and only has a government/enterprise product now. The personal version has been discontinued.

andrewinardeer 1y ago
Pardon my ignorance here, does this mean that governments approach Wickr and buy licences to use their encrypted messenger? If so, what does Wickr do better than other encrypted messenger apps?
- bigfatkitten 1y ago
  In short, paperwork. Government has a ton of policy requirements around data retention, audit logging, where their data is stored, who can access it etc, as well as technical requirements for things like encryption algorithms. They also have a requirement to operate on isolated networks. It is difficult for an ordinary consumer messaging app to meet these requirements. Matrix is really the only competitor.
  - SurfShoulders 1y ago
    [dead]

dmix 1y ago

90% of the work is probably compliance and gov contract hoop jumping, not the code.

inhumantsar 1y ago
that seems optimistic tbh. I'd guess 70/30 lobbying/compliance.

steamrolled 1y ago

If Signal becomes financially dependent on government contracts, the govt gains a lot of leverage over the app. I'm not sure that's a great position for this particular platform to be in.

Nifty3929 1y ago
This is a good point - but at some point we have to trust someone. I feel that the Signal folks are worth trusting. Plus it's open source, so the more technie among us can meaningfully audit what's going on. That's not foolproof, but it does seem better than most alternatives. Certainly it's better for the gov't to pay Signal than to try to do it themselves.
- Freak_NL 1y ago
  > I feel that the Signal folks are worth trusting. The MobileCoin integration and the long standing refusal to support a way to use the messenger without using a phone number (or a smartphone at all) make me wary. To me they sit pretty much on the same level of trust as Meta's WhatsApp, which is a sad thing to have to conclude.
  - cantrecallmypwd 1y ago
    This. Session does desktop and mobile cheerfully without leaving metadata enabling government real-time location tracking.
    - omnimus 1y ago
      And cheerfuly does bunch of other things https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/ https://soatok.blog/2025/01/14/dont-use-session-signal-fork/

photonthug 1y ago

Katherine Maher, the CEO of NPR, chairs the board of the Signal Foundation.