4 ms·

Felix86: Run x86-64 programs on RISC-V Linux

126 points by rguiscard 1y ago

badmonster 1y ago
What remaining challenges are you most interested in solving for felix86—GPU driver support, full 32-bit compatibility, better Wine integration, or something else entirely?
- westurner 1y ago
  The felix86 compatibility list also lists SuperTux and SuperTuxCart. "lsteamclient: Add support for ARM64." https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/commit/8ff40aad6ef002e5570579cfaaaf7ecfefdc1eea https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/commit/8ff40aad6ef00... .. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43847860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43847860 /? box86: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=box86&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... "New box86 v0.3.2 and Box64 v0.2.4 released – RISC-V and WoW64 support" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37197074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37197074 /? box64 is:pr RISC-V is:closed: https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64/pulls?q=is%3Apr+risc-v+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64/pulls?q=is%3Apr+risc-v+is%3...
JonChesterfield 1y ago
Haven't found the source code (https://github.com/orgs/felix86-emu/repositories https://github.com/orgs/felix86-emu/repositories looked likely but no), curious whether this is a qemu fork or a DIY effort.
- drmpeg 1y ago
  https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/ https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/
  - JonChesterfield 1y ago
    Nice, thanks! I appreciate seeing a bunch of the instruction definitions written in a serialisation format (e.g. https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/counts/SSE2.json https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/counts/SSE2.js...) as opposed to C macros.
    - bonzini 1y ago
      Those are tests, it seems. The actual sources are at https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/tree/master/src/felix86 https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/tree/master/src/felix86 and the disassembler is https://zydis.re https://zydis.re.
    - dzaima 1y ago
      The main x86 to RISC-V instruction mapping is in this file: https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/src/felix86/v2/handlers.cpp https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/src/felix86/v2... That file is just testing I believe.
guerrilla 1y ago
This is good. Maybe it means some day we'll able to run Steam on it. Wouldn't that be funny? Windows emulation on x86-64 emulation on RISC-V.
- snvzz 1y ago
  I am hopeful valve will release a risc-v build themselves. And wine/proton will integrate with this or some similar solution for running x86 binaries.
  - guerrilla 1y ago
    They can't. The games themselves are compiled for x86-64 and closed source. It's not enough if they just recompiled Steam, Proton, etc.
    - throawayonthe 1y ago
      [dead]
    - rwmj 1y ago
      It seems as if there are unofficial(?) Steam ports to Arm which presumably run the x86-64 binaries in emulation, so that would be a similar sort of thing.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
OptionX 1y ago
Always wondered why RISC-V doesn't get more mainstream adoption. Even if not at the consumer level, having your data center, for example, running a cheaper (I assume since no license for the instruction set means not having to pay for it and more options to buy from leading to lower prices) and less power demanding option when compared to x86-64 sounds enticing to me. Maybe no one wants to be the genea pig to iron out the kinks of the transition or maybe the raw performance of x86 is bigger deal than I think it is and its worth the price and power. Dunno.
- bobmcnamara 1y ago
  > Always wondered why RISC-V doesn't get more mainstream adoption. For me, it's because the ecosystem has fragged even harder than Xtensa, who will sell you custom CPUs. THead made yet another vector unit that's required to approach anything near the Intel/AMD moat numbers. SpecInt/GHz last year was around half of Intel/AMD/ARM numbers. The imminent demise of CISC has been trumpeted from the rooftops for at least the last 30 years...
  - deaddodo 1y ago
    ARM isn't CISC and has, by sheer numbers, completely dominated x86 for decades now; not counting the massive number of MIPS, AVR, etc embedded chips. Additionally, if you want to get super technical (as if there were ever a real delineation between RISC/CISC), both AMD and Intel decode x86 into internal micro-ops which are essentially RISC. So, for all intents and purposes, CISC is dead and buried.
    - jcranmer 1y ago
      > Additionally, if you want to get super technical (as if there were ever a real delineation between RISC/CISC), both AMD and Intel decode x86 into internal micro-ops which are essentially RISC. Given that most CISC chips also relied on microcoding and micro-ops, x86 having micro-ops wouldn't have made it anything like RISC as far as the original CISC/RISC debate goes. The only reason that the "x86 is really RISC because of micro-ops" comes up is because x86 implementations are superscalar, which was supposed to be impossible with RISC chips, so people started coming up with the micro-op fudge to salvage the story that you need RISC to be an advanced modern microprocessor. The truth is that CISC was never a meaningful category in the first place (it was only ever "not-RISC"), and RISC itself ceased to be a meaningful category around 30 years ago.
ValdikSS 1y ago
How's it different from box86/box64? It also has RISC-V with JIT support. https://box86.org/ https://box86.org/
sylware 1y ago
Funny, I am doing exactly the other way around: I run small RV64 linux programs on x86_64 linux. I cannot way for the first AAA games to run on ultra-performant RISC-V(RV23+) microarchitectures made with the state-of-the-art silicon process.
gitroom 1y ago
Love that folks are hacking stuff like this already, even if RISC-V still feels ages behind x86 for anything heavy. I def wanna see how far these emulators can actually push things. Kinda makes me hope for that wacky Steam-on-RISC-V future lol.
- _joel 1y ago
  Almost heh https://www.reddit.com/r/RISCV/comments/1jfkng6/windows_steam_running_on_riscv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RISCV/comments/1jfkng6/windows_stea...

126 points by rguiscard 1y ago

What remaining challenges are you most interested in solving for felix86—GPU driver support, full 32-bit compatibility, better Wine integration, or something else entirely?

westurner 1y ago
The felix86 compatibility list also lists SuperTux and SuperTuxCart. "lsteamclient: Add support for ARM64." https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/commit/8ff40aad6ef002e5570579cfaaaf7ecfefdc1eea https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/commit/8ff40aad6ef00... .. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43847860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43847860 /? box86: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=box86&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... "New box86 v0.3.2 and Box64 v0.2.4 released – RISC-V and WoW64 support" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37197074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37197074 /? box64 is:pr RISC-V is:closed: https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64/pulls?q=is%3Apr+risc-v+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64/pulls?q=is%3Apr+risc-v+is%3...

JonChesterfield 1y ago

Haven't found the source code (https://github.com/orgs/felix86-emu/repositories https://github.com/orgs/felix86-emu/repositories looked likely but no), curious whether this is a qemu fork or a DIY effort.

drmpeg 1y ago
https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/ https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/
- JonChesterfield 1y ago
  Nice, thanks! I appreciate seeing a bunch of the instruction definitions written in a serialisation format (e.g. https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/counts/SSE2.json https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/counts/SSE2.js...) as opposed to C macros.
  - bonzini 1y ago
    Those are tests, it seems. The actual sources are at https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/tree/master/src/felix86 https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/tree/master/src/felix86 and the disassembler is https://zydis.re https://zydis.re.
  - dzaima 1y ago
    The main x86 to RISC-V instruction mapping is in this file: https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/src/felix86/v2/handlers.cpp https://github.com/OFFTKP/felix86/blob/master/src/felix86/v2... That file is just testing I believe.

guerrilla 1y ago

This is good. Maybe it means some day we'll able to run Steam on it. Wouldn't that be funny? Windows emulation on x86-64 emulation on RISC-V.

snvzz 1y ago
I am hopeful valve will release a risc-v build themselves. And wine/proton will integrate with this or some similar solution for running x86 binaries.
- guerrilla 1y ago
  They can't. The games themselves are compiled for x86-64 and closed source. It's not enough if they just recompiled Steam, Proton, etc.
  - throawayonthe 1y ago
    [dead]
  - rwmj 1y ago
    It seems as if there are unofficial(?) Steam ports to Arm which presumably run the x86-64 binaries in emulation, so that would be a similar sort of thing.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

OptionX 1y ago

Always wondered why RISC-V doesn't get more mainstream adoption. Even if not at the consumer level, having your data center, for example, running a cheaper (I assume since no license for the instruction set means not having to pay for it and more options to buy from leading to lower prices) and less power demanding option when compared to x86-64 sounds enticing to me. Maybe no one wants to be the genea pig to iron out the kinks of the transition or maybe the raw performance of x86 is bigger deal than I think it is and its worth the price and power. Dunno.

bobmcnamara 1y ago
> Always wondered why RISC-V doesn't get more mainstream adoption. For me, it's because the ecosystem has fragged even harder than Xtensa, who will sell you custom CPUs. THead made yet another vector unit that's required to approach anything near the Intel/AMD moat numbers. SpecInt/GHz last year was around half of Intel/AMD/ARM numbers. The imminent demise of CISC has been trumpeted from the rooftops for at least the last 30 years...
- deaddodo 1y ago
  ARM isn't CISC and has, by sheer numbers, completely dominated x86 for decades now; not counting the massive number of MIPS, AVR, etc embedded chips. Additionally, if you want to get super technical (as if there were ever a real delineation between RISC/CISC), both AMD and Intel decode x86 into internal micro-ops which are essentially RISC. So, for all intents and purposes, CISC is dead and buried.
  - jcranmer 1y ago
    > Additionally, if you want to get super technical (as if there were ever a real delineation between RISC/CISC), both AMD and Intel decode x86 into internal micro-ops which are essentially RISC. Given that most CISC chips also relied on microcoding and micro-ops, x86 having micro-ops wouldn't have made it anything like RISC as far as the original CISC/RISC debate goes. The only reason that the "x86 is really RISC because of micro-ops" comes up is because x86 implementations are superscalar, which was supposed to be impossible with RISC chips, so people started coming up with the micro-op fudge to salvage the story that you need RISC to be an advanced modern microprocessor. The truth is that CISC was never a meaningful category in the first place (it was only ever "not-RISC"), and RISC itself ceased to be a meaningful category around 30 years ago.

ValdikSS 1y ago

How's it different from box86/box64? It also has RISC-V with JIT support. https://box86.org/ https://box86.org/

sylware 1y ago

Funny, I am doing exactly the other way around: I run small RV64 linux programs on x86_64 linux. I cannot way for the first AAA games to run on ultra-performant RISC-V(RV23+) microarchitectures made with the state-of-the-art silicon process.

gitroom 1y ago

Love that folks are hacking stuff like this already, even if RISC-V still feels ages behind x86 for anything heavy. I def wanna see how far these emulators can actually push things. Kinda makes me hope for that wacky Steam-on-RISC-V future lol.

_joel 1y ago
Almost heh https://www.reddit.com/r/RISCV/comments/1jfkng6/windows_steam_running_on_riscv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RISCV/comments/1jfkng6/windows_stea...