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I think it's mostly due to nobody solving "it" yet. If you look at the various frameworks, they approach the same problems in wildly different ways, even if the

by Alupis 1y ago

I think it's mostly due to nobody solving "it" yet. If you look at the various frameworks, they approach the same problems in wildly different ways, even if the underlying ideas are similar. Take Svelte vs. Angular vs NextJS for example - they all sort of do same thing (create web apps), but take very different approaches. People choose these various frameworks for reasons, including what style makes the most sense to them, which one is easier to use, which one might be more performant for their use, etc. There's no clear "right" answer to which framework is best - in other words... the field has not yet been min-maxed. Regarding server-side rendering - I'd assert today's SSR is not really the same thing as classical SSR. Today's SSR is almost always a hybrid with some sort of client-side payload backed by server-side stuff, giving you the best of both worlds.

ho_lee_phuk 1y ago
People are going to downvote me for saying this, but because JavaScript's built-in batteries are so weak, everyone re-invents them all the time in slightly different ways. - How do you build a Rust project? With cargo - How about the Go project? With the Go tool - How do you build a backend JavaScript project? - node, yarn (with different incompatible yarn versions), bun, and 5 other types of tools I manage a 100+ engineer team, and any time an engineer complains about our Python stack being unwieldy, I propose they work on frontend tooling for a week. JavaScript tooling makes Python tooling fragmentation look sane.
- steezeburger 1y ago
  How can you possibly realistically manage a 100+ engineer team? 100+ direct reports? Also, the Python landscape is just as bad as frontend! And I enjoy writing both quite a bit. Pip, pipenv, pyenv, poetry, conda, virtualenv, uv, ruff, black, pep8, etc, etc. They both need massive improvements.
  - ho_lee_phuk 1y ago
    > How can you possibly realistically manage a 100+ engineer team? 100+ direct reports? They report to engineering managers who report to me. > Also, the Python landscape is just as bad as frontend! And I enjoy writing both quite a bit. Pip, pipenv, pyenv, poetry, conda, virtualenv, uv, ruff, black, pep8, etc, etc. They both need massive improvements. Yeah, it is bad, but a notch better. Most things in Python land are 5-year-olds. 5-year-old React or Vue codebases (the two most popular frameworks) are not backward-compatible with the current release. And we cannot stay on old versions as we have a government as a customer who requires SBOM, and SBOM declaring unmaintained dependencies creates even more trouble than upgrading frontends regularly!

by Alupis 1y ago

ho_lee_phuk 1y ago

People are going to downvote me for saying this, but because JavaScript's built-in batteries are so weak, everyone re-invents them all the time in slightly different ways. - How do you build a Rust project? With cargo - How about the Go project? With the Go tool - How do you build a backend JavaScript project? - node, yarn (with different incompatible yarn versions), bun, and 5 other types of tools I manage a 100+ engineer team, and any time an engineer complains about our Python stack being unwieldy, I propose they work on frontend tooling for a week. JavaScript tooling makes Python tooling fragmentation look sane.

steezeburger 1y ago
How can you possibly realistically manage a 100+ engineer team? 100+ direct reports? Also, the Python landscape is just as bad as frontend! And I enjoy writing both quite a bit. Pip, pipenv, pyenv, poetry, conda, virtualenv, uv, ruff, black, pep8, etc, etc. They both need massive improvements.
- ho_lee_phuk 1y ago
  > How can you possibly realistically manage a 100+ engineer team? 100+ direct reports? They report to engineering managers who report to me. > Also, the Python landscape is just as bad as frontend! And I enjoy writing both quite a bit. Pip, pipenv, pyenv, poetry, conda, virtualenv, uv, ruff, black, pep8, etc, etc. They both need massive improvements. Yeah, it is bad, but a notch better. Most things in Python land are 5-year-olds. 5-year-old React or Vue codebases (the two most popular frameworks) are not backward-compatible with the current release. And we cannot stay on old versions as we have a government as a customer who requires SBOM, and SBOM declaring unmaintained dependencies creates even more trouble than upgrading frontends regularly!