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From somewhere in the depths of an old reddit thread, someone recommended asking candidates "How fat is Kim Jong Un?" Instant hang-up.

the_af 1y ago
Why would this work? Spies are trained to behave like the host country would expect, why wouldn't hackers? If hackers have access to the outside world (something they would need to be effective), they'd know the world thinks Kim is fat. "He's very fat, haha!", end of story. Edit: wait, or better yet: "how on earth would I know, and why are you asking this in a job interview? Is this because I'm Korean? I'd like to file a complaint with HR, what was your name again?"
- smallnix 1y ago
  Not sure some rank and file 50ct army "hacker" wants to take the risk to insult their god-dictator.
  - the_af 1y ago
    If he's acting under NK command, this wouldn't be insulting, it's just doing a hacker's work. Besides, you cannot have it both ways: either North Korean hackers are a "50ct army" or they are a credible threat. Most seem to be arguing they are a credible threat. Also, he can always take the second option: "why are you asking about this in a job interview?", something many legitimate Korean candidates could ask.
    - smallnix 1y ago
      > If he's acting under NK command, this wouldn't be insulting, it's just doing a hacker's work. I understand where you are coming from, I wanted to express my idea that their person cult shaped culture might be so alien to us, that what seems obvious to us, might be a non-option to them. At least at the level where I imagine such operators. > you cannot have it both ways: either North Korean hackers are a "50ct army" or they are a credible threat I assume the people performing the en-masse long term infiltration are not the same with technical skills who the execute technical attacks.
- danielvf 1y ago
  These aren't spies first. They are often children of well to do, high loyalty group North Koreans. It's just a privileged job. The skill and IQ level varies widely, from super smart to super unskilled. And these roughly get sorted out into different groups with different MO's. North Koreans aren't some uniformly skilled group. You could be targeted by a team of world class bytecode exploit geniuses who rehearses every move, or by the equivalent of Milton from Office Space. Dissing Kim is something that is not currently widely permitted in NK. Just isn't worth personally. Not saying no one from NK never will, but so far almost everyone will immediately stop the conversation at this point. There are plenty of crypto people who have monthly or weekly encounters with NK job applicants.
  - the_af 1y ago
    I find this answer highly implausible, not the least because maintaining cover doesn't count as dissing ("I infiltrated the org by telling them the lies they wanted to hear" is hacking 101). Also, North Koreans aren't dumb. I find some people's attitude to NK hackers slightly schizophrenic: either they are a credible threat or they are amateurs. Which one is it? > Dissing Kim is something that is not currently widely permitted in NK This wouldn't be "widely", this would be a specific interaction with a hostile foreigner for the purpose of infiltrating them. It's not the same as being allowed to say this to fellow North Koreans. > Not saying no one from NK never will, but so far almost everyone will immediately stop the conversation at this point. Legitimate candidates would at this point too, so as a tactic this is useless.
    - danielvf 1y ago
      I am saying they are both a credible threat and many are amateurs. Those are not mutually exclusive. You are talking about North Korea attackers from a theoretical point of view. For many people dealing with them is just a normal part of work. It's not an unknown that needs to be worked out logically from an armchair. I'm saying this as someone who personally chatted with a North Korea persona that later tried to drop exploits on people, and the persona belonged to hacking group with at least one 50 million dollar heist. I've also seen the screenshots on many chats with North Koreans.
arduanika 1y ago
In the depths of an old reddit thread, OR in a different thread that happens to appear today, alongside this one, on HN front page! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853382
- Capricorn2481 1y ago
  I'm with others: This is a silly anecdote from Crowdstrike of all companies. If I was asked how fat Kim Jong Un was, I would probably wait for some kind of "I'm kidding," and hang up if I didn't get it. I don't believe they are earnestly identifying spies, even if they believe it. Not that they need spies to hack our system anyway, they managed to bring half the country to a halt by themselves.

the_af 1y ago

Why would this work? Spies are trained to behave like the host country would expect, why wouldn't hackers? If hackers have access to the outside world (something they would need to be effective), they'd know the world thinks Kim is fat. "He's very fat, haha!", end of story. Edit: wait, or better yet: "how on earth would I know, and why are you asking this in a job interview? Is this because I'm Korean? I'd like to file a complaint with HR, what was your name again?"

smallnix 1y ago
Not sure some rank and file 50ct army "hacker" wants to take the risk to insult their god-dictator.
- the_af 1y ago
  If he's acting under NK command, this wouldn't be insulting, it's just doing a hacker's work. Besides, you cannot have it both ways: either North Korean hackers are a "50ct army" or they are a credible threat. Most seem to be arguing they are a credible threat. Also, he can always take the second option: "why are you asking about this in a job interview?", something many legitimate Korean candidates could ask.
  - smallnix 1y ago
    > If he's acting under NK command, this wouldn't be insulting, it's just doing a hacker's work. I understand where you are coming from, I wanted to express my idea that their person cult shaped culture might be so alien to us, that what seems obvious to us, might be a non-option to them. At least at the level where I imagine such operators. > you cannot have it both ways: either North Korean hackers are a "50ct army" or they are a credible threat I assume the people performing the en-masse long term infiltration are not the same with technical skills who the execute technical attacks.
danielvf 1y ago
These aren't spies first. They are often children of well to do, high loyalty group North Koreans. It's just a privileged job. The skill and IQ level varies widely, from super smart to super unskilled. And these roughly get sorted out into different groups with different MO's. North Koreans aren't some uniformly skilled group. You could be targeted by a team of world class bytecode exploit geniuses who rehearses every move, or by the equivalent of Milton from Office Space. Dissing Kim is something that is not currently widely permitted in NK. Just isn't worth personally. Not saying no one from NK never will, but so far almost everyone will immediately stop the conversation at this point. There are plenty of crypto people who have monthly or weekly encounters with NK job applicants.
- the_af 1y ago
  I find this answer highly implausible, not the least because maintaining cover doesn't count as dissing ("I infiltrated the org by telling them the lies they wanted to hear" is hacking 101). Also, North Koreans aren't dumb. I find some people's attitude to NK hackers slightly schizophrenic: either they are a credible threat or they are amateurs. Which one is it? > Dissing Kim is something that is not currently widely permitted in NK This wouldn't be "widely", this would be a specific interaction with a hostile foreigner for the purpose of infiltrating them. It's not the same as being allowed to say this to fellow North Koreans. > Not saying no one from NK never will, but so far almost everyone will immediately stop the conversation at this point. Legitimate candidates would at this point too, so as a tactic this is useless.
  - danielvf 1y ago
    I am saying they are both a credible threat and many are amateurs. Those are not mutually exclusive. You are talking about North Korea attackers from a theoretical point of view. For many people dealing with them is just a normal part of work. It's not an unknown that needs to be worked out logically from an armchair. I'm saying this as someone who personally chatted with a North Korea persona that later tried to drop exploits on people, and the persona belonged to hacking group with at least one 50 million dollar heist. I've also seen the screenshots on many chats with North Koreans.

arduanika 1y ago

In the depths of an old reddit thread, OR in a different thread that happens to appear today, alongside this one, on HN front page! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853382

Capricorn2481 1y ago
I'm with others: This is a silly anecdote from Crowdstrike of all companies. If I was asked how fat Kim Jong Un was, I would probably wait for some kind of "I'm kidding," and hang up if I didn't get it. I don't believe they are earnestly identifying spies, even if they believe it. Not that they need spies to hack our system anyway, they managed to bring half the country to a halt by themselves.