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Not even anti-union, but comfy enough not to feel the need for the effort/risk involved in unionizing. When you work in a trade where you could easily be kille

Not even anti-union, but comfy enough not to feel the need for the effort/risk involved in unionizing. When you work in a trade where you could easily be killed or injured on the job the calculus is a bit different.

DrillShopper 1y ago
It's never ceases to amaze me how much software folks think that their job cannot easily injure or kill them. All of the devs I know have no work/life balance, skip doctor's appointments because of work commitments, and several I know have had strokes or heart attacks at their desk while pushing to meet a deadline. Just because you likely won't be killed in a crane collapse or someone dropping a hammer doesn't mean that the workplace is safe and that working conditions are good.
- const_cast 1y ago
  You’re quite right - working in an office kills you. It’s just mundane and slow, so we don’t really notice. But at the end of the day most people are dropping from heart disease, diabetes, obesity. Sitting 8+ hours a day is basically worse for you than smoking. Since it’s so, so slow I think we all have the belief that surely this will not happen to us. We will not be frog boiled, because surely we will notice once we are fat and hyperventilating going up the stairs. Surely, there will be some indication and we will turn the ship around. But looking around us, I don’t think so. Clearly people are getting frog boiled. And they get so beaten down, so worn, that eventually they do not fight it.
- theamk 1y ago
  If that describes you, I advice you to look at other jobs ASAP. I've seen what you describe in Amazon - high pressure, constant thread of being fired, stress, no work/life balance, etc... Many other jobs are different. Sure, things are inefficient, but the expectations are not very high either. You come in, do your 7 hours of work (or don't even come in if you are remote), and go home. It's pretty hard to get fired, so as long as you are putting a nominal effort, you'd be fine. Some people are trying to get a promotion, or are just full of energy - they may work very hard, skip work/life balance and stress out. But it's all optional, if you are happy with your initial salary, you don't have to do it. (The major annoyance with this is if you are trying to actually get things done, like ship a product, there are just _so many_ people around who seem to work very slowly, and that cannot be relied on to deliver things in time... but this is all in your head, you only stress out about this if you choose to)
  - DrillShopper 1y ago
    > Some people are trying to get a promotion, or are just full of energy - they may work very hard, skip work/life balance and stress out. But it's all optional, if you are happy with your initial salary, you don't have to do it. Every place I have ever worked has been "up or out". Maybe 20 years ago that kind of job existed, but it does not now.
    - theamk 1y ago
      Such jobs certainly exist today, I know plenty of people who don't feel any pressure to get promoted, and people certainly won't get fired for lack of ambition or for being 2x slow than average engineer on their team. I am in embedded/robotics though, other industries may be different.

DrillShopper 1y ago

It's never ceases to amaze me how much software folks think that their job cannot easily injure or kill them. All of the devs I know have no work/life balance, skip doctor's appointments because of work commitments, and several I know have had strokes or heart attacks at their desk while pushing to meet a deadline. Just because you likely won't be killed in a crane collapse or someone dropping a hammer doesn't mean that the workplace is safe and that working conditions are good.

const_cast 1y ago
You’re quite right - working in an office kills you. It’s just mundane and slow, so we don’t really notice. But at the end of the day most people are dropping from heart disease, diabetes, obesity. Sitting 8+ hours a day is basically worse for you than smoking. Since it’s so, so slow I think we all have the belief that surely this will not happen to us. We will not be frog boiled, because surely we will notice once we are fat and hyperventilating going up the stairs. Surely, there will be some indication and we will turn the ship around. But looking around us, I don’t think so. Clearly people are getting frog boiled. And they get so beaten down, so worn, that eventually they do not fight it.
theamk 1y ago
If that describes you, I advice you to look at other jobs ASAP. I've seen what you describe in Amazon - high pressure, constant thread of being fired, stress, no work/life balance, etc... Many other jobs are different. Sure, things are inefficient, but the expectations are not very high either. You come in, do your 7 hours of work (or don't even come in if you are remote), and go home. It's pretty hard to get fired, so as long as you are putting a nominal effort, you'd be fine. Some people are trying to get a promotion, or are just full of energy - they may work very hard, skip work/life balance and stress out. But it's all optional, if you are happy with your initial salary, you don't have to do it. (The major annoyance with this is if you are trying to actually get things done, like ship a product, there are just _so many_ people around who seem to work very slowly, and that cannot be relied on to deliver things in time... but this is all in your head, you only stress out about this if you choose to)
- DrillShopper 1y ago
  > Some people are trying to get a promotion, or are just full of energy - they may work very hard, skip work/life balance and stress out. But it's all optional, if you are happy with your initial salary, you don't have to do it. Every place I have ever worked has been "up or out". Maybe 20 years ago that kind of job existed, but it does not now.
  - theamk 1y ago
    Such jobs certainly exist today, I know plenty of people who don't feel any pressure to get promoted, and people certainly won't get fired for lack of ambition or for being 2x slow than average engineer on their team. I am in embedded/robotics though, other industries may be different.