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You can’t guarantee E2E across messaging networks. Apple still doesn’t do it, and neither does Signal, WhatsApp, Messenger, etc.

jlokier 1y ago
Sure you can. The services just need to agree protocols. The tech & cryptography part is not difficult these days. We've had guaranteed E2E for email since PGP in 1991, though not many people cared enough to use it. None of the services you listed do it, but that's because they don't want to, not because it can't be done. It's a business decision problem, not a technical problem.
- avar 1y ago
  It's also a technical problem, the overall security model of these apps isn't just the E2E encryption, but e.g. Signal not saving attachments to local storage, message expiry (which inherently requires clients to cooperate).
enragedcacti 1y ago
> RCS update adds end-to-end encryption, Google and Apple confirm support https://9to5google.com/2025/03/14/rcs-end-to-end-encryption-update/ https://9to5google.com/2025/03/14/rcs-end-to-end-encryption-...
- kergonath 1y ago
  The parent is technically wrong, but he was right at the time the decision got made.
  - clhodapp 1y ago
    The parent is factually correct about the state of the world at time the decision was made but it is irrelevant trivia, given that Apple already supported SMS (an unencrypted protocol) and that they made a deliberate business decision to preserve the status quo of non-interoperability and their ability to falsely blame it on a dedication to encryption.
  - enragedcacti 1y ago
    In what sense, that we literally didn't know how to do e2e across messaging networks? The Signal protocol existed in 2016 when Schiller argued against cross-platform (also PGP for 30+ years). Even granting that, offering iMessage on Android would satisfy most people and doesn't require operating across networks so any argument about feasibility rings very hollow. https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android-eddy-cue-emails-apple-epic-deposition https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android...

jlokier 1y ago

Sure you can. The services just need to agree protocols. The tech & cryptography part is not difficult these days. We've had guaranteed E2E for email since PGP in 1991, though not many people cared enough to use it. None of the services you listed do it, but that's because they don't want to, not because it can't be done. It's a business decision problem, not a technical problem.

avar 1y ago
It's also a technical problem, the overall security model of these apps isn't just the E2E encryption, but e.g. Signal not saving attachments to local storage, message expiry (which inherently requires clients to cooperate).

enragedcacti 1y ago

> RCS update adds end-to-end encryption, Google and Apple confirm support https://9to5google.com/2025/03/14/rcs-end-to-end-encryption-update/ https://9to5google.com/2025/03/14/rcs-end-to-end-encryption-...

kergonath 1y ago
The parent is technically wrong, but he was right at the time the decision got made.
- clhodapp 1y ago
  The parent is factually correct about the state of the world at time the decision was made but it is irrelevant trivia, given that Apple already supported SMS (an unencrypted protocol) and that they made a deliberate business decision to preserve the status quo of non-interoperability and their ability to falsely blame it on a dedication to encryption.
- enragedcacti 1y ago
  In what sense, that we literally didn't know how to do e2e across messaging networks? The Signal protocol existed in 2016 when Schiller argued against cross-platform (also PGP for 30+ years). Even granting that, offering iMessage on Android would satisfy most people and doesn't require operating across networks so any argument about feasibility rings very hollow. https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android-eddy-cue-emails-apple-epic-deposition https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android...