3 ms·

>I wouldn't call turning browsers into application runtimes "major innovation". I would call it one of the most important innovations of the last 20 years. Nam

>I wouldn't call turning browsers into application runtimes "major innovation". I would call it one of the most important innovations of the last 20 years. Name another true write-once-run-anywhere universal VM that is installed in billions of consumer devices and costs nothing. It doesn't exist. The only way the entire modern software ecosystem is even possible is because of the web as a platform. Literally everything else is a non-portable closed proprietary stack.

grishka 1y ago
I argue that such a thing as a "true write-once-run-anywhere universal VM that is installed in billions of consumer devices" is not needed in this form. It creates more problems than it solves.
bigstrat2003 1y ago
> Name another true write-once-run-anywhere universal VM that is installed in billions of consumer devices and costs nothing. It doesn't exist. Java certainly meets your criteria and exists. But much like the person you are replying to, I consider the "modern software ecosystem" to be utter garbage. Web browsers are just a terrible user experience for applications compared to the desktop. We have regressed greatly in user experience, not progressed.
- ramesh31 1y ago
  >Java certainly meets your criteria and exists It does not. Nothing about Java provides a sandboxed runtime environment.
  - immibis 1y ago
    Nor does anything about WASM. The sandbox is provided externally. The only difference is that Java standardizes functions for things like file access, while WASM doesn't standardize them (but WASI does!)
Zambyte 1y ago
You don't need a VM for a "write once run anywhere" environment at all. That's the whole point of high level programming languages like C and Fortran. The innovation of having a VM to run everything in is to be able to compile once and run anywhere, which is only valuable to people wishing to hide the source code from the people running their software (malware authors).

grishka 1y ago

I argue that such a thing as a "true write-once-run-anywhere universal VM that is installed in billions of consumer devices" is not needed in this form. It creates more problems than it solves.

bigstrat2003 1y ago

> Name another true write-once-run-anywhere universal VM that is installed in billions of consumer devices and costs nothing. It doesn't exist. Java certainly meets your criteria and exists. But much like the person you are replying to, I consider the "modern software ecosystem" to be utter garbage. Web browsers are just a terrible user experience for applications compared to the desktop. We have regressed greatly in user experience, not progressed.

ramesh31 1y ago
>Java certainly meets your criteria and exists It does not. Nothing about Java provides a sandboxed runtime environment.
- immibis 1y ago
  Nor does anything about WASM. The sandbox is provided externally. The only difference is that Java standardizes functions for things like file access, while WASM doesn't standardize them (but WASI does!)

Zambyte 1y ago

You don't need a VM for a "write once run anywhere" environment at all. That's the whole point of high level programming languages like C and Fortran. The innovation of having a VM to run everything in is to be able to compile once and run anywhere, which is only valuable to people wishing to hide the source code from the people running their software (malware authors).