7 ms·

some of the modern software is slower because someone made a poor decision to fetch something from the network on the critical path of main functionality... kil

by alliao 1y ago

some of the modern software is slower because someone made a poor decision to fetch something from the network on the critical path of main functionality... kills me

amiga386 1y ago
Example: https://old.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/upf8nw/fixed_opening_documents_too_slow/ https://old.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/upf8nw/fixed_o... Opening a spreadsheet, even if you don't want to print it, will hang for 30 seconds doing nothing, because LibreOffice will load the printer settings for the document, which means asking the printer, which if the printer is network-based and turned off, means a 30 second wait for a timeout. Reported in 2011, still not fixed: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673
- ramshanker 1y ago
  This... 100 times. Everyday wastes my few minutes. 5 figure commercial application, state of art in it's domain, but somehow It has to wait for that unresponsive network printer and hang the startup UI.
- HideousKojima 1y ago
  Best workaround (still ridiculous that it hasn't been fixed) is to set a PDF printer as your default printer.
  - hedora 1y ago
    I frequently have to do this for a different reason on MacOS/iOS. Printing directly sends bad PCL to my printer and makes it spew garbage pages. "Print to PDF -> print the PDF" is much more reliable. sigh
- Twirrim 1y ago
  I don't recall spreadsheets ever having any visible printer formatting until the point at which you print them? So surely it's not even a case of "even if you don't want to print it"?
- buovjaga 1y ago
  > Reported in 2011, still not fixed: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 Perhaps spurred by this comment, there was new discussion in the report and it turned out Microsoft has fixed the issue in Windows 11: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673#c88 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673#c8... Quote: "I was one of the many who reported this problem in one from or another. The problem is Windows-specific. I have found out that the problem actually comes from the Windows print system. There is no way to check that a printer is actually active or working or even present without incurring a long time-out in case the printer is not present or powered. Trying to check the defualt printer will incur the same time-out. Calc apparently wants to check the printer to know how to construct its layout, and has to wait for the time-out to continue. Some of the comments that claim that Calc hangs and never returns have probably not waited long enough for the timeout. On my new Windows 11 computer, this printer system behavior has been changed and I no longer experience a delay while opening Calc."
sgarland 1y ago
It’s because modern devs by and large have zero concept of latency differences. I had to explain to people yesterday why an on-disk temporary table in MySQL was slower than an in-memory one. “But the disk is an SSD,” was an actual rebuttal I got. Never mind the fact that this was Aurora, so the “disk” is a slice of (multiple) SSDs exposed over a SAN…
- jonhohle 1y ago
  https://gist.github.com/jboner/2841832 https://gist.github.com/jboner/2841832
  - hedora 1y ago
    That really should include "sync write 4KB to an SSD". People don't realize it's purely in-RAM on the disk these days (you pay a PCIe round trip, and that's about it).
- 101008 1y ago
  That is what happens when your dev learnt it from an online course instead of going to college or through proper education. "Anyone can code!"
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    And I thought we were past this sort of gatekeeping and elitism. I've worked with people who had a master's degree in CS who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag. In my experience there's very little correlation between how someone learned programming and how deep their understanding of the entire stack is.
    - bsrkf 1y ago
      Hope this doesn't come off as disrespectful, as in that I don't believe you, but out of personal interest, would you consider expanding on that? I'd love to hear about the particular example you were thinking of, or in what ways self-taught coders surprised you over academically-taught ones, if you've had experience working with both over a meaningful span of time. Also, if the case, in what ways self-taught coders were/are maybe lacking on average. If you've ever given answers to that in another comments on HN or elsewhere, feel free to link.
deeThrow94 1y ago
This is also a classic emacs mistake, so I wouldn't put it all on age.
mjmas 1y ago
Opening any ms office app with the network disconnected opens up almost instantly...
qwerty456127 1y ago
What I am glad to leave behind and forget like a nightmare is Windows local networking with shared folders etc - these never worked nice and the last time anybody I know used these was pre-2010. Today we just use NextCloud, Matrix, email and Git for all our collaboration needs.
- vladvasiliu 1y ago
  Who's "we"? I work for a company who drank the MS cool-aid, so running Windows on laptops, using Office365 for e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, teams for chat, sharepoint / onedrive for shared ressources. Have you tried launching a local app by typing in the start menu on a default win11 install with limited / slow internet access? Good times. How about doing some operation (say delete an e-mail) in one window of "new" outlook and having the others refresh? I have never understood how some otherwise reasonable people are able to consider this absolute shitshow of a work environment good enough.

by alliao 1y ago

some of the modern software is slower because someone made a poor decision to fetch something from the network on the critical path of main functionality... kills me

amiga386 1y ago

Example: https://old.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/upf8nw/fixed_opening_documents_too_slow/ https://old.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/upf8nw/fixed_o... Opening a spreadsheet, even if you don't want to print it, will hang for 30 seconds doing nothing, because LibreOffice will load the printer settings for the document, which means asking the printer, which if the printer is network-based and turned off, means a 30 second wait for a timeout. Reported in 2011, still not fixed: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673

ramshanker 1y ago
This... 100 times. Everyday wastes my few minutes. 5 figure commercial application, state of art in it's domain, but somehow It has to wait for that unresponsive network printer and hang the startup UI.
HideousKojima 1y ago
Best workaround (still ridiculous that it hasn't been fixed) is to set a PDF printer as your default printer.
- hedora 1y ago
  I frequently have to do this for a different reason on MacOS/iOS. Printing directly sends bad PCL to my printer and makes it spew garbage pages. "Print to PDF -> print the PDF" is much more reliable. sigh
Twirrim 1y ago
I don't recall spreadsheets ever having any visible printer formatting until the point at which you print them? So surely it's not even a case of "even if you don't want to print it"?
buovjaga 1y ago
> Reported in 2011, still not fixed: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673 Perhaps spurred by this comment, there was new discussion in the report and it turned out Microsoft has fixed the issue in Windows 11: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673#c88 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42673#c8... Quote: "I was one of the many who reported this problem in one from or another. The problem is Windows-specific. I have found out that the problem actually comes from the Windows print system. There is no way to check that a printer is actually active or working or even present without incurring a long time-out in case the printer is not present or powered. Trying to check the defualt printer will incur the same time-out. Calc apparently wants to check the printer to know how to construct its layout, and has to wait for the time-out to continue. Some of the comments that claim that Calc hangs and never returns have probably not waited long enough for the timeout. On my new Windows 11 computer, this printer system behavior has been changed and I no longer experience a delay while opening Calc."

sgarland 1y ago

It’s because modern devs by and large have zero concept of latency differences. I had to explain to people yesterday why an on-disk temporary table in MySQL was slower than an in-memory one. “But the disk is an SSD,” was an actual rebuttal I got. Never mind the fact that this was Aurora, so the “disk” is a slice of (multiple) SSDs exposed over a SAN…

jonhohle 1y ago
https://gist.github.com/jboner/2841832 https://gist.github.com/jboner/2841832
- hedora 1y ago
  That really should include "sync write 4KB to an SSD". People don't realize it's purely in-RAM on the disk these days (you pay a PCIe round trip, and that's about it).
101008 1y ago
That is what happens when your dev learnt it from an online course instead of going to college or through proper education. "Anyone can code!"
- dns_snek 1y ago
  And I thought we were past this sort of gatekeeping and elitism. I've worked with people who had a master's degree in CS who couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag. In my experience there's very little correlation between how someone learned programming and how deep their understanding of the entire stack is.
  - bsrkf 1y ago
    Hope this doesn't come off as disrespectful, as in that I don't believe you, but out of personal interest, would you consider expanding on that? I'd love to hear about the particular example you were thinking of, or in what ways self-taught coders surprised you over academically-taught ones, if you've had experience working with both over a meaningful span of time. Also, if the case, in what ways self-taught coders were/are maybe lacking on average. If you've ever given answers to that in another comments on HN or elsewhere, feel free to link.

deeThrow94 1y ago

This is also a classic emacs mistake, so I wouldn't put it all on age.

mjmas 1y ago

Opening any ms office app with the network disconnected opens up almost instantly...

qwerty456127 1y ago

What I am glad to leave behind and forget like a nightmare is Windows local networking with shared folders etc - these never worked nice and the last time anybody I know used these was pre-2010. Today we just use NextCloud, Matrix, email and Git for all our collaboration needs.

vladvasiliu 1y ago
Who's "we"? I work for a company who drank the MS cool-aid, so running Windows on laptops, using Office365 for e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, teams for chat, sharepoint / onedrive for shared ressources. Have you tried launching a local app by typing in the start menu on a default win11 install with limited / slow internet access? Good times. How about doing some operation (say delete an e-mail) in one window of "new" outlook and having the others refresh? I have never understood how some otherwise reasonable people are able to consider this absolute shitshow of a work environment good enough.