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Isn’t the new bike parking facility next to Centraal in Amsterdam a massive counterexample? That clearly supports mixed-mode commuting, right?

withinboredom 2y ago
You can do it because it’s easy, but when you file your taxes, you have to choose one to count as a tax break. In 2024, driving gave you the biggest tax break.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  If government funds were used to build or finance the parking facility, I’d argue that’s taxes supporting/encouraging mixed mode commuting. (I have no idea if that was 100.00% private or not.)
- TimTheTinker 2y ago
  It's insane to me that some countries have such high taxes that tax breaks become the most important variable when deciding which mode of transportation to use.
  - brnt 2y ago
    You should turn that around: if getting people off the road is something you really care about then make it pay.
    - TimTheTinker 2y ago
      I take no position on which mode of transportation is preferable for others to take (though I have my own preferences, to be sure). Where I come from, taxes are comparatively low. So it's weird to see people talking about them influencing their behavior so significantly. That's a lot of power the government has... I'd rather keep my money than let bureaucrats spend it to manipulate the public's behavior.
      - Symbiote 2y ago
        Taxes spent on building roads presumably significant influence your behavior. Taxing cars puts the cost of those roads more directly on the users of them.
        TimTheTinker 2y ago
        I'm not talking about building infrastructure or paying directly for things that cost money for the government to do, I'm talking about market manipulation.
      - brnt 2y ago
        Wait till you discover how capitalists manipulate markets...
brnt 2y ago
In addition to sibling: the bike is, for many people, already, 'too cheap to meter', so the tax advantage goes to the train subscription. And quite some employers either give you a train subscription, or let you deduct kilometers travelled at some rate. That rate depends on modality, but the subscription for free is usually (always) a much better deal, _if_ you really don't need that car. Whoever is left driving cars (which is, also in the Netherlands, a large fraction), can't for instance drive up to some remote train station, and rail the rest. That's how you can get those who still drive out of their cars; those that already take trains are covered by the rules as they are.

withinboredom 2y ago

You can do it because it’s easy, but when you file your taxes, you have to choose one to count as a tax break. In 2024, driving gave you the biggest tax break.

sokoloff 2y ago
If government funds were used to build or finance the parking facility, I’d argue that’s taxes supporting/encouraging mixed mode commuting. (I have no idea if that was 100.00% private or not.)
TimTheTinker 2y ago
It's insane to me that some countries have such high taxes that tax breaks become the most important variable when deciding which mode of transportation to use.
- brnt 2y ago
  You should turn that around: if getting people off the road is something you really care about then make it pay.
  - TimTheTinker 2y ago
    I take no position on which mode of transportation is preferable for others to take (though I have my own preferences, to be sure). Where I come from, taxes are comparatively low. So it's weird to see people talking about them influencing their behavior so significantly. That's a lot of power the government has... I'd rather keep my money than let bureaucrats spend it to manipulate the public's behavior.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      Taxes spent on building roads presumably significant influence your behavior. Taxing cars puts the cost of those roads more directly on the users of them.
      - TimTheTinker 2y ago
        I'm not talking about building infrastructure or paying directly for things that cost money for the government to do, I'm talking about market manipulation.
    - brnt 2y ago
      Wait till you discover how capitalists manipulate markets...

brnt 2y ago

In addition to sibling: the bike is, for many people, already, 'too cheap to meter', so the tax advantage goes to the train subscription. And quite some employers either give you a train subscription, or let you deduct kilometers travelled at some rate. That rate depends on modality, but the subscription for free is usually (always) a much better deal, _if_ you really don't need that car. Whoever is left driving cars (which is, also in the Netherlands, a large fraction), can't for instance drive up to some remote train station, and rail the rest. That's how you can get those who still drive out of their cars; those that already take trains are covered by the rules as they are.