6 ms·

What kind of tickles me is that any new poltical thriller tv series or movie that posits that matters of state in the US are conducted by serious and knowledgab

What kind of tickles me is that any new poltical thriller tv series or movie that posits that matters of state in the US are conducted by serious and knowledgable people is now virtually unwatchable for me. It's virtually impossible to suspend the disbelief required to enjoy something that is so far removed from the reality of today's politicians. (The recent cringe inducing Deniro series comes to mind)

mycatisblack 1y ago
You should watch Civil War (2024) some time. The disbelief is shrinking on that one.
- mnky9800n 1y ago
  I found that movie to be disgusting as it takes real footage of war horrors such as 20 days in Mariupol, suicide bombers, etc. and sanitizes that for American audiences. Using this visual style of movies like 20 days in Mariupol indicates the filmmakers watched those movies and thought that could make them buck. Then it gives you some bullshit feel good call of duty action at the end to go kill the president which is tonally different both in visual style and in the context of the narrative. And it replaces the horrors of war such as bombing maternity hospitals and watching pregnant women be dragged from the wreckage with stereotypical racist Americans. And it justifies all this because it tells the tale of some war time reporters and asks the question what if they are just adrenaline junkies which is why they do their jobs? Thereby undercutting the real value and heroism of those who report on these conflicts who are captured, tortured, and murdered (e.g., Viktoriia Roshchyna). It does nothing to connect the audience with anything that is actually happening in the world and even serves to insulate Americans from the horrors of Ukraine and elsewhere while attacking journalists. I thought that movie was disgusting.
  - decimalenough 1y ago
    ...huh? Civil War is about a group of reporters in the final days of a future civil war in America where a rather Trumpian president is about to be overthrown by rebels. It's not "replacing" anything in Ukraine because it's an entirely different story than Ukraine.
    - mnky9800n 1y ago
      I am talking about the visual language of the movie and how it takes the style of documentary films like 20 days in Mariupol (a movie about the beginning of the war in Ukraine). not the narrative.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
        I am confused. What is your complaint here? That US author's stole the visual approach?
        mnky9800n 1y ago
        I don't think the approach was stolen. It is fine for artists to take styles and ideas from other works and put them in their own. My point is that I found the film to be generally an affront to the suffering of people in actual, ongoing wars. It trivialized those experiences using them as a costume so american audiences could giggle in delight at the cinema without having to worry about the trappings of an actual war. And it did so all to tell a narrative that was somewhat against war-time journalism, painting their efforts as self absorbed and self serving. Like look at the way they film the death of the Kirsten Dunst, in this hero pose with camera in hand searching for the perfect picture. Contrast that to the actual life and death of someone like Viktoriia Rushchyna who was tortured and had organs removed or Shireen Abu Akleh who was allegedly shot in the head by a sniper while wearing a press vest. I simply found the film disgusting and if people disagree with me that is fine. Of course any film about war (or perhaps any topic) could be controversial to someone. The WW2 epics starring John Wayne or Sergei Eisenstein's Alexandr Nevsky are both examples where the directors twisted every detail and used every opportunity to present a political message that the viewer may or may not agree with. My view on this is that the director of Civil War, Alex Garland, makes statements with the film that I disagree with. He seems to not see the humanity in people, at least, in my opinion. The movie never doubles down on anything, there is no deeper examination of the characters in the film, they just are until they aren't anymore. This is similar to his 2018 film Annihilation, which is essentially a retelling of J.G. Ballard's The Crystal World, and all of those characters in some way lack a humanity (although I think this works much better in this film as you discover that each character goes into the zone to find something about themselves that is missing and what defines them as human to themselves). And similar to The Beach, the novel he wrote that was turned into the movie The Beach, starring Leonardo Dicaprio about vapid westerners partying in thailand, or 28 days later, the zombie movie he wrote directed by Danny Boyle. Garland seems to see life as cheap and meaningless across the books and movies he has created. He cares more about the visual trappings of the setting he creates than the humans who live there. In the case of Civil War, I find it offensive as it uses the visual style of documentary films about ongoing wars as a costume and set dressing for his movie. And this movie comes from a culture (American) that started a war in Iraq and has done basically no introspection as to how those decisions completely changed their society into what it is today. This also influences the Civil War film. The president is blamed exclusively for all bad things across america. The entire movie is about how everything is the president's fault but lets interview him to see why.
  - nathan82 1y ago
    Do you have a different example other than 20 Days in Mariupol? Because the filmmakers definitely didn't watch that and think it could "make them buck". Principal photography for Civil War took place the year before 20 Days in Mariupol premiered.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  As I recall the battle lines were a bit awkwardly drawn for that one. The realism would increase if Cali and Texas were governed by the same party for some time in real life (as I recall they were allies in that movie). I would like to see someone take up the idea of Canamerimex Union in a movie for kicks -- that is, the idea of Canada, California and Mexico forming a union on the west coast (and maybe continuing down the east coast, with Canada bridging both coasts)
  - nozzlegear 1y ago
    > As I recall the battle lines were a bit awkwardly drawn for that one. The realism would increase if Cali and Texas were governed by the same party for some time in real life (as I recall they were allies in that movie). I actually liked that little detail and don't think it's too farfetched. In real life those two states are currently on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but (iirc) we don't actually know why the civil war started in the movie and it seemed careful to avoid any kind of left vs right ideology. California and Texas both have a rich history of calls for secession from the union, and both have heavyweight economies that could allow them to stand as their own countries. I think if a civil war did break out where both states disagreed with the Federal government, they'd be more likely than you think to form an alliance.
    - righthand 1y ago
      The war in the movie starts because authoritarian elected Potus Nick Offerman creates an economic division between the states which causes the states to group up geographically and ally on their divisions. California and Texas today wouldn’t pair but given enough pressure they might to ensure they remain an economic power house.
      - nerdponx 1y ago
        I could imagine them seceding independently, but allying once seceded, especially if the CA secession government shifts more conservative.
    - 1y ago
wickedsight 1y ago
I'm currently watching 24 again and it now feels even more like fiction than it ever did.
- mnky9800n 1y ago
  24 was a wonderful piece of American propaganda whose only goal was to make it seem like torture was okay.
  - acdha 1y ago
    Yes, it was sickening to watch a lot of people - even self-proclaimed libertarians – flip on torture during that period. There was a stark reversal from the 90s where the War Crimes Act was unanimously passed because back then anti-torture laws were thought of as affecting enemies like the Viet Cong, which lasted less than a decade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996
  - Der_Einzige 1y ago
    The jack bauer power hour is a strong memory of my childhood.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    People who talked about how 24 and Jack Bauer showed that torture was good actually included a goddamned supreme court justice and I think the SecDef? The Bush Jr admin was openly fans of the show. Oh, and the cast were invited to have a panel at a conference for the fucking Heritage Foundation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M A look at the 24 world and it's insane violence by Jon Bois
    - mnky9800n 1y ago
      There should be a whole PhD dissertation in how 24 took over American culture and was used to justify heinous acts with some trite “the ends justify the means” hero porn on prime time. Edit: and don’t forget this show was on fox.
pjc50 1y ago
On the other hand, the UK Spitting Image puppet series of sketches The President's Brain is Missing holds up remarkably well, due to being about Reagan.
ryukoposting 1y ago
In that case, you may enjoy Veep.
- trhway 1y ago
  Total endorsement for Veep! There is a significant difference though which even Veep didn't predict - the people in Veep were still riding in the well-oiled deep-state car, while those clowns today is actively destroying that car. Wrt. clowns - note that the most important Hegseth's staffer is his wife who was his producer back at Fox and basically does the same for him at the Pentagon.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  Yes, I am familiar. When the dust has settled, it should probably go down as one of the best written shows this side of the century.
- jay_kyburz 1y ago
  And "Don't look Up!"
mrbombastic 1y ago
Yeah it has ruined the old zombie movies where the government ends up the bad guy but a competent bad guy that makes unilateral decisions like quarantining a city or bombing a civilian center to contain infection. I am pretty sure they are gonna all be either 1) running around panicking with the rest of us 2) infighting and useless 3) denying the truth before their eyes if such a catastrophic crisis ever were to happen.
ModernMech 1y ago
True, anything that doesn't approximate Idiocracy is now not realistic enough.

mycatisblack 1y ago

You should watch Civil War (2024) some time. The disbelief is shrinking on that one.

mnky9800n 1y ago
I found that movie to be disgusting as it takes real footage of war horrors such as 20 days in Mariupol, suicide bombers, etc. and sanitizes that for American audiences. Using this visual style of movies like 20 days in Mariupol indicates the filmmakers watched those movies and thought that could make them buck. Then it gives you some bullshit feel good call of duty action at the end to go kill the president which is tonally different both in visual style and in the context of the narrative. And it replaces the horrors of war such as bombing maternity hospitals and watching pregnant women be dragged from the wreckage with stereotypical racist Americans. And it justifies all this because it tells the tale of some war time reporters and asks the question what if they are just adrenaline junkies which is why they do their jobs? Thereby undercutting the real value and heroism of those who report on these conflicts who are captured, tortured, and murdered (e.g., Viktoriia Roshchyna). It does nothing to connect the audience with anything that is actually happening in the world and even serves to insulate Americans from the horrors of Ukraine and elsewhere while attacking journalists. I thought that movie was disgusting.
- decimalenough 1y ago
  ...huh? Civil War is about a group of reporters in the final days of a future civil war in America where a rather Trumpian president is about to be overthrown by rebels. It's not "replacing" anything in Ukraine because it's an entirely different story than Ukraine.
  - mnky9800n 1y ago
    I am talking about the visual language of the movie and how it takes the style of documentary films like 20 days in Mariupol (a movie about the beginning of the war in Ukraine). not the narrative.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
      I am confused. What is your complaint here? That US author's stole the visual approach?
      - mnky9800n 1y ago
        I don't think the approach was stolen. It is fine for artists to take styles and ideas from other works and put them in their own. My point is that I found the film to be generally an affront to the suffering of people in actual, ongoing wars. It trivialized those experiences using them as a costume so american audiences could giggle in delight at the cinema without having to worry about the trappings of an actual war. And it did so all to tell a narrative that was somewhat against war-time journalism, painting their efforts as self absorbed and self serving. Like look at the way they film the death of the Kirsten Dunst, in this hero pose with camera in hand searching for the perfect picture. Contrast that to the actual life and death of someone like Viktoriia Rushchyna who was tortured and had organs removed or Shireen Abu Akleh who was allegedly shot in the head by a sniper while wearing a press vest. I simply found the film disgusting and if people disagree with me that is fine. Of course any film about war (or perhaps any topic) could be controversial to someone. The WW2 epics starring John Wayne or Sergei Eisenstein's Alexandr Nevsky are both examples where the directors twisted every detail and used every opportunity to present a political message that the viewer may or may not agree with. My view on this is that the director of Civil War, Alex Garland, makes statements with the film that I disagree with. He seems to not see the humanity in people, at least, in my opinion. The movie never doubles down on anything, there is no deeper examination of the characters in the film, they just are until they aren't anymore. This is similar to his 2018 film Annihilation, which is essentially a retelling of J.G. Ballard's The Crystal World, and all of those characters in some way lack a humanity (although I think this works much better in this film as you discover that each character goes into the zone to find something about themselves that is missing and what defines them as human to themselves). And similar to The Beach, the novel he wrote that was turned into the movie The Beach, starring Leonardo Dicaprio about vapid westerners partying in thailand, or 28 days later, the zombie movie he wrote directed by Danny Boyle. Garland seems to see life as cheap and meaningless across the books and movies he has created. He cares more about the visual trappings of the setting he creates than the humans who live there. In the case of Civil War, I find it offensive as it uses the visual style of documentary films about ongoing wars as a costume and set dressing for his movie. And this movie comes from a culture (American) that started a war in Iraq and has done basically no introspection as to how those decisions completely changed their society into what it is today. This also influences the Civil War film. The president is blamed exclusively for all bad things across america. The entire movie is about how everything is the president's fault but lets interview him to see why.
- nathan82 1y ago
  Do you have a different example other than 20 Days in Mariupol? Because the filmmakers definitely didn't watch that and think it could "make them buck". Principal photography for Civil War took place the year before 20 Days in Mariupol premiered.
sillyfluke 1y ago
As I recall the battle lines were a bit awkwardly drawn for that one. The realism would increase if Cali and Texas were governed by the same party for some time in real life (as I recall they were allies in that movie). I would like to see someone take up the idea of Canamerimex Union in a movie for kicks -- that is, the idea of Canada, California and Mexico forming a union on the west coast (and maybe continuing down the east coast, with Canada bridging both coasts)
- nozzlegear 1y ago
  > As I recall the battle lines were a bit awkwardly drawn for that one. The realism would increase if Cali and Texas were governed by the same party for some time in real life (as I recall they were allies in that movie). I actually liked that little detail and don't think it's too farfetched. In real life those two states are currently on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but (iirc) we don't actually know why the civil war started in the movie and it seemed careful to avoid any kind of left vs right ideology. California and Texas both have a rich history of calls for secession from the union, and both have heavyweight economies that could allow them to stand as their own countries. I think if a civil war did break out where both states disagreed with the Federal government, they'd be more likely than you think to form an alliance.
  - righthand 1y ago
    The war in the movie starts because authoritarian elected Potus Nick Offerman creates an economic division between the states which causes the states to group up geographically and ally on their divisions. California and Texas today wouldn’t pair but given enough pressure they might to ensure they remain an economic power house.
    - nerdponx 1y ago
      I could imagine them seceding independently, but allying once seceded, especially if the CA secession government shifts more conservative.
  - 1y ago

wickedsight 1y ago

I'm currently watching 24 again and it now feels even more like fiction than it ever did.

mnky9800n 1y ago
24 was a wonderful piece of American propaganda whose only goal was to make it seem like torture was okay.
- acdha 1y ago
  Yes, it was sickening to watch a lot of people - even self-proclaimed libertarians – flip on torture during that period. There was a stark reversal from the 90s where the War Crimes Act was unanimously passed because back then anti-torture laws were thought of as affecting enemies like the Viet Cong, which lasted less than a decade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  The jack bauer power hour is a strong memory of my childhood.
- mrguyorama 1y ago
  People who talked about how 24 and Jack Bauer showed that torture was good actually included a goddamned supreme court justice and I think the SecDef? The Bush Jr admin was openly fans of the show. Oh, and the cast were invited to have a panel at a conference for the fucking Heritage Foundation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M A look at the 24 world and it's insane violence by Jon Bois
  - mnky9800n 1y ago
    There should be a whole PhD dissertation in how 24 took over American culture and was used to justify heinous acts with some trite “the ends justify the means” hero porn on prime time. Edit: and don’t forget this show was on fox.

pjc50 1y ago

On the other hand, the UK Spitting Image puppet series of sketches The President's Brain is Missing holds up remarkably well, due to being about Reagan.

ryukoposting 1y ago

In that case, you may enjoy Veep.

trhway 1y ago
Total endorsement for Veep! There is a significant difference though which even Veep didn't predict - the people in Veep were still riding in the well-oiled deep-state car, while those clowns today is actively destroying that car. Wrt. clowns - note that the most important Hegseth's staffer is his wife who was his producer back at Fox and basically does the same for him at the Pentagon.
sillyfluke 1y ago
Yes, I am familiar. When the dust has settled, it should probably go down as one of the best written shows this side of the century.
jay_kyburz 1y ago
And "Don't look Up!"

mrbombastic 1y ago

Yeah it has ruined the old zombie movies where the government ends up the bad guy but a competent bad guy that makes unilateral decisions like quarantining a city or bombing a civilian center to contain infection. I am pretty sure they are gonna all be either 1) running around panicking with the rest of us 2) infighting and useless 3) denying the truth before their eyes if such a catastrophic crisis ever were to happen.

ModernMech 1y ago

True, anything that doesn't approximate Idiocracy is now not realistic enough.