4 ms·

The irony is that Google pays this money in order to prevent being seen as a (browser) monopoly, but instead it seems the DOJ is using their status as a search

The irony is that Google pays this money in order to prevent being seen as a (browser) monopoly, but instead it seems the DOJ is using their status as a search monopoly as justification for stopping the funding (and selling Chrome) even though it will just create the same browser monopoly all over again.

benatkin 2y ago
Ostensibly. I think the main reasons are to sabotage Firefox and to increase their partnerships with the other FAANGs. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Sabotage%20firefox&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Of course, monopolists and their toadies don’t acknowledge all of their dirty behavior.
- dismalaf 2y ago
  Sabotage Firefox? They've literally been keeping Firefox afloat for what, a decade? Longer?
  - billiam 2y ago
    Afloat like Weekend at Bernie's. I lived through multiple efforts to prop up the corpse while making sure it would never ever be as good as Chrome.
    - ta1243 2y ago
      Depends on your definition of "good". To me it's impossible not to be as good as Chrome, as I define good as not being run by google.
  - asadotzler 2y ago
    Google's been paying Mozilla for search traffic for more than 20 years, just like the other major browsers. It's not out of kindness any more than paying Apple for Safari traffic is out of kindness. It's literally payments for search traffic and reported to the IRS by Google as "traffic acquisition cost" or TAC. Google doesn't do it for "keeping Firefox afloat," it's about Google grabbing even more search traffic and dissuading browsers from sending their traffic to alternatives, or creating their own search engines, and always has been. But Google was a mostly reasonable partner to browser makers until they got into the business themselves. After Chrome shipped, Google properties started mysteriously becoming slower or broken in Firefox in ways that had no good technical support and that consistently siphoned large numbers of Firefox user over to Chrome before being addressed. It happened over and over on major Google properties like Gmail and Docs all through the 2010s. Jonath's Twitter thread is gone but the reporting isn't https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has-sabotaged-firefox-for-years/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has... And they did it to IE and Edge too, until MS finally capitulated and jumped on Google's tech to escape the sabotaging. There's reporting on that too https://www.neowin.net/news/former-edge-intern-says-google-sabotaged-microsofts-browser/ https://www.neowin.net/news/former-edge-intern-says-google-s...
    - EbNar 2y ago
      > Google's been paying Mozilla for search traffic for more than 20 years Well, and Mozill gladly accepted the deal, being passive and without even trying to be self-sustainable. The (only) culprit here isn't Google. Mozilla's mismanagement has played a big role.
      - asadotzler 2y ago
        Mozilla had 10 engineers a total team of about 20 and about $1M in the bank and a few dollars in donations coming in when we made the Google search deal. Take that deal away in late 2004 and Mozilla dies by 2026. It seems like you don't actually understand any of this and are just bluffing.
        ta1243 2y ago
        > Take that deal away in late 2004 and Mozilla dies by 2026 Run a team of 10 engineers for 20+ years on $1m? Wow that's a bargain! (I assume you meant dies by 2006 :D)
        ranger_danger 2y ago
        If you're implying that Mozilla has not been horribly mismanaged for decades, I think many would disagree with that.
        EbNar 2y ago
        [dead]

benatkin 2y ago

Ostensibly. I think the main reasons are to sabotage Firefox and to increase their partnerships with the other FAANGs. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Sabotage%20firefox&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Of course, monopolists and their toadies don’t acknowledge all of their dirty behavior.

dismalaf 2y ago
Sabotage Firefox? They've literally been keeping Firefox afloat for what, a decade? Longer?
- billiam 2y ago
  Afloat like Weekend at Bernie's. I lived through multiple efforts to prop up the corpse while making sure it would never ever be as good as Chrome.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    Depends on your definition of "good". To me it's impossible not to be as good as Chrome, as I define good as not being run by google.
- asadotzler 2y ago
  Google's been paying Mozilla for search traffic for more than 20 years, just like the other major browsers. It's not out of kindness any more than paying Apple for Safari traffic is out of kindness. It's literally payments for search traffic and reported to the IRS by Google as "traffic acquisition cost" or TAC. Google doesn't do it for "keeping Firefox afloat," it's about Google grabbing even more search traffic and dissuading browsers from sending their traffic to alternatives, or creating their own search engines, and always has been. But Google was a mostly reasonable partner to browser makers until they got into the business themselves. After Chrome shipped, Google properties started mysteriously becoming slower or broken in Firefox in ways that had no good technical support and that consistently siphoned large numbers of Firefox user over to Chrome before being addressed. It happened over and over on major Google properties like Gmail and Docs all through the 2010s. Jonath's Twitter thread is gone but the reporting isn't https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has-sabotaged-firefox-for-years/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has... And they did it to IE and Edge too, until MS finally capitulated and jumped on Google's tech to escape the sabotaging. There's reporting on that too https://www.neowin.net/news/former-edge-intern-says-google-sabotaged-microsofts-browser/ https://www.neowin.net/news/former-edge-intern-says-google-s...
  - EbNar 2y ago
    > Google's been paying Mozilla for search traffic for more than 20 years Well, and Mozill gladly accepted the deal, being passive and without even trying to be self-sustainable. The (only) culprit here isn't Google. Mozilla's mismanagement has played a big role.
    - asadotzler 2y ago
      Mozilla had 10 engineers a total team of about 20 and about $1M in the bank and a few dollars in donations coming in when we made the Google search deal. Take that deal away in late 2004 and Mozilla dies by 2026. It seems like you don't actually understand any of this and are just bluffing.
      - ta1243 2y ago
        > Take that deal away in late 2004 and Mozilla dies by 2026 Run a team of 10 engineers for 20+ years on $1m? Wow that's a bargain! (I assume you meant dies by 2006 :D)
      - ranger_danger 2y ago
        If you're implying that Mozilla has not been horribly mismanaged for decades, I think many would disagree with that.
      - EbNar 2y ago
        [dead]