4 ms·

My HOA has decreed that clotheslines are prohibited. But my state has also made it illegal to prohibit the use of clotheslines, a "right to dry" law.

by jerlam 1y ago

saagarjha 1y ago
So, are you drying your clothes outside?
Peanuts99 1y ago
It seems insane to me that a group of people who live near you can tell you how you dry your washing. From a UK perspective, HOA's seem mad.
- freddie_mercury 1y ago
  The UK also has homeowners associations and some of them ban outdoors clothes drying. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
  - gambiting 1y ago
    I live in the UK and I've never heard of that - do you have any examples? The one thing I could find is leasehold covenants prohitibing it, but that's almost always moot and ridiculously difficult to enforce.
    - freddie_mercury 1y ago
      https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-gardens/developers-accused-of-crossing-the-line-with-washing-ban-in-edinburgh-gardens-3210269 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-g... Banning laundry hanging is much less common in the UK so harder to find examples. But POAs are reasonably common and enforce all kinds of things for aesthetic reasons.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  HOA rules and local ordinances are written by the most petty people who have the least other stuff going on and the strongest desire to use threat of violence to control other people. With selection bias like that it's not surprising what you get.
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  HOA's are a death cult to keep the home values of all houses within them guaranteed to go up. The sad part is that it works - HOA neighborhoods have guarantees that things which (old white people) hate, like loud parties, will not happen. Stop buying HOA homes, and people will stop forming them. The market has spoken and a lot of Americans love them.
  - jerlam 1y ago
    I live in a condo and share a roof, walls, and driveways with my neighbors so an HOA or something like it is probably required. I am thankful that my HOA board is mostly hands-off, and many of the more petty rules are not enforced. If I had to buy a standalone home, I would probably have to pay considerably more and live in a worse part of the neighborhood.
tasuki 1y ago
> My HOA has decreed that clotheslines are prohibited. Is there a reason for this? I'm struggling to come up with a sensible reason tbh...
- patja 1y ago
  Many HOA rules are purely esthetic. Which can vary from person to person.
  - PebblesRox 1y ago
    "There’s status in a neatly tended space that conveys a message of respectable conformity and leisure. There’s also a strong cultural rejection of useful productive things because they’re useful and productive. "My favorite example of this concept is the humble clothes line. Is it legal to dry your laundry in the sun where you live? In many parts of the country this is expressly forbidden by law and/or private binding agreement. This sort of activity is associated with rural peasants, impoverished slum dwellers, dirty hippies, white trash (or worse), and is at odds with the look and feel of a prosperous community. It might be a scorching day in August but everyone is compelled to operate a mechanical dryer in the house and crank up the air conditioning because anything else is shameful and verboten." https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/6/the-other-pitchforks https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/6/the-other-pitch...
gambiting 1y ago
The thing that always surprises me about HOAs is that a country boldly calling itself "land of the free" is the one where people are willingly entering agreements telling them what they can or cannot do with their washing, how they can park their vehicle on their property, or how much and how often they can cut their own grass in their own garden. I don't see how these two are mutually compatible, I always expect a more boisterous "don't tell me what to do" attitude from Americans but it looks like a lot of them do in fact enjoy being told what to do(or they put up with it, at least). Obviously other countries have various regulations around this stuff too, but it's just not as aggressive and not as wide spread as HOAs are in the States.
- teeray 1y ago
  > is the one where people are willingly entering agreements “Willingly” makes it sound like there’s a lot more choice in the process than there is. Many municipalities want a free lunch when it comes to approving new developments—they want all the tax revenue without any of the pesky costs of road maintenance, trash removal, drainage maintenance, etc. The solution? Approve the development with an HOA—now that’s the neighborhood’s problem (tax bills are still due in full though!). They apply this playbook over and over until the large majority of houses coming on the market are in HOAs. Buyers in these markets severely limit their choices (in an already limited market) if they eliminate HOAs from their search.
- Enginerrrd 1y ago
  It's a regional thing. In my area on the West Coast, an HOA would be unthinkable.

My HOA has decreed that clotheslines are prohibited. But my state has also made it illegal to prohibit the use of clotheslines, a "right to dry" law.

by jerlam 1y ago

My HOA has decreed that clotheslines are prohibited. But my state has also made it illegal to prohibit the use of clotheslines, a "right to dry" law.

saagarjha 1y ago

So, are you drying your clothes outside?

Peanuts99 1y ago

It seems insane to me that a group of people who live near you can tell you how you dry your washing. From a UK perspective, HOA's seem mad.

freddie_mercury 1y ago
The UK also has homeowners associations and some of them ban outdoors clothes drying. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
- gambiting 1y ago
  I live in the UK and I've never heard of that - do you have any examples? The one thing I could find is leasehold covenants prohitibing it, but that's almost always moot and ridiculously difficult to enforce.
  - freddie_mercury 1y ago
    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-gardens/developers-accused-of-crossing-the-line-with-washing-ban-in-edinburgh-gardens-3210269 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-g... Banning laundry hanging is much less common in the UK so harder to find examples. But POAs are reasonably common and enforce all kinds of things for aesthetic reasons.
potato3732842 1y ago
HOA rules and local ordinances are written by the most petty people who have the least other stuff going on and the strongest desire to use threat of violence to control other people. With selection bias like that it's not surprising what you get.
Der_Einzige 1y ago
HOA's are a death cult to keep the home values of all houses within them guaranteed to go up. The sad part is that it works - HOA neighborhoods have guarantees that things which (old white people) hate, like loud parties, will not happen. Stop buying HOA homes, and people will stop forming them. The market has spoken and a lot of Americans love them.
- jerlam 1y ago
  I live in a condo and share a roof, walls, and driveways with my neighbors so an HOA or something like it is probably required. I am thankful that my HOA board is mostly hands-off, and many of the more petty rules are not enforced. If I had to buy a standalone home, I would probably have to pay considerably more and live in a worse part of the neighborhood.

tasuki 1y ago

> My HOA has decreed that clotheslines are prohibited. Is there a reason for this? I'm struggling to come up with a sensible reason tbh...

patja 1y ago
Many HOA rules are purely esthetic. Which can vary from person to person.
- PebblesRox 1y ago
  "There’s status in a neatly tended space that conveys a message of respectable conformity and leisure. There’s also a strong cultural rejection of useful productive things because they’re useful and productive. "My favorite example of this concept is the humble clothes line. Is it legal to dry your laundry in the sun where you live? In many parts of the country this is expressly forbidden by law and/or private binding agreement. This sort of activity is associated with rural peasants, impoverished slum dwellers, dirty hippies, white trash (or worse), and is at odds with the look and feel of a prosperous community. It might be a scorching day in August but everyone is compelled to operate a mechanical dryer in the house and crank up the air conditioning because anything else is shameful and verboten." https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/6/the-other-pitchforks https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/5/6/the-other-pitch...

gambiting 1y ago

The thing that always surprises me about HOAs is that a country boldly calling itself "land of the free" is the one where people are willingly entering agreements telling them what they can or cannot do with their washing, how they can park their vehicle on their property, or how much and how often they can cut their own grass in their own garden. I don't see how these two are mutually compatible, I always expect a more boisterous "don't tell me what to do" attitude from Americans but it looks like a lot of them do in fact enjoy being told what to do(or they put up with it, at least). Obviously other countries have various regulations around this stuff too, but it's just not as aggressive and not as wide spread as HOAs are in the States.

teeray 1y ago
> is the one where people are willingly entering agreements “Willingly” makes it sound like there’s a lot more choice in the process than there is. Many municipalities want a free lunch when it comes to approving new developments—they want all the tax revenue without any of the pesky costs of road maintenance, trash removal, drainage maintenance, etc. The solution? Approve the development with an HOA—now that’s the neighborhood’s problem (tax bills are still due in full though!). They apply this playbook over and over until the large majority of houses coming on the market are in HOAs. Buyers in these markets severely limit their choices (in an already limited market) if they eliminate HOAs from their search.
Enginerrrd 1y ago
It's a regional thing. In my area on the West Coast, an HOA would be unthinkable.