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Finally. The AppStore rules are ridiculous. Apple has zero moral justification for them. They are quadruple-dipping: 1. Consumers pay premium prices for Apple

Finally. The AppStore rules are ridiculous. Apple has zero moral justification for them. They are quadruple-dipping: 1. Consumers pay premium prices for Apple devices. 2. Developers have to pay $100 a year to be able to publish an app. 3. Developers need to buy expensive Apple hardware to develop for iOS. XCode doesn't work on Linux or Windows. 4. And on top of it, Apple also wants 30% of all the gross app sales. All while their tools that developers _have_ to use are buggy and often nigh unsusable (Apple Connect....). But wait, there's more! To keep the stronghold on developers, Apple is not allowing third-party apps to use JITs, resulting in a huge amount of time wasted to work around that.

m463 2y ago
also, you can't install software on your own device. Even when you can, you have to ask apple permission.
- arresin 2y ago
  The broader consumer base will install anything a bad actor wants them to and then blame the manufacturer for not stopping them with some draconian rule.
  - smt88 2y ago
    The Play Store proves you absolutely wrong about this. It was an unfiltered Wild West until very recently.
  - TheDong 2y ago
    Please, side-loading is usually an annoying involved process targeted at developers which the average consumer cannot accidentally do. A bad actor would have better luck telling a victim "just ship me your phone and login password for some emergency maintenance" than instructing a user through sideloading an app onto their smart fridge. I, personally, would be happy if iOS had android-style side-loading where you have to enable developer mode, promise you're not an idiot, and go from there.
    - m463 2y ago
      the fact that "side-loading" is even a name is sort of ridiculous. Even on apple's other operating system it is just downloading and running a program. I remember when you could just stick a floppy or later cd into a system from anywhere and install and run a program. it was called "install and run".
  - idle_zealot 2y ago
    This expectation exists because Apple/Google/monopolists sell it. But it's not realistic, the app stores are cesspools. We need a culture shift to being more selective about installing software. Clearer permissions, better architecture, and trusted repositories with reputations to maintain. Installing software without any validation of safety should be possible but scary (show a terminal log reporting useful technical information or something).
    - itissid 2y ago
      Permissioning is a mess – among other things of course. I feel that permissions to access any resource(image, location, files etc) could be given without necessarily giving access to the PII value that resource holds, e.g. running a no side effects function on it on-device or on a trusted service that is readonly to me and write-only to 3rd parties.
sepositus 2y ago
> All while their tools that developers _have_ to use are buggy and often nigh unsusable (Apple Connect....). I'm moving to a job where I don't have to be the build/devops engineer for a product with an iOS app. To say I'm relieved wouldn't even be the half of it. What made it particularly worse was that our release cycle was every two months which is just enough time for Apple to completely wreck the build. Absolutely terrible experience.
stahtops 2y ago
[flagged]
- Draiken 2y ago
  You go where your customers are. Companies can't ignore Apple if they want to sell in the US so they're forced into their ecosystem. It's not a preference like you imply. I'll never understand how people defend blatantly anti-competitive behavior even when it hurts themselves.
  - stahtops 2y ago
    Our priorities just aren't aligned, I am not being measurably hurt by any of the AppStore rules cyberax laid out. I don't want to be forced or even prompted to fill out my personal information on every apps website. To me that sounds like an increased burden of my time, and it puts my personal information at higher risk to be gathered and sold or leaked. I prefer the transaction to happen within the app on iOS conforming to the UI/UX standards that Apple has established. I know exactly what happens when we just let the free market "manage" anything. Utter chaos. We get an internet that is completely and utterly infected with ads, spam, and scams. No thanks.
    - viridian 2y ago
      Why did you choose to write your first post in bad faith?
      - stahtops 2y ago
        Not bad faith. In 2006, the AppStore didn’t exist. In 2008, it did. Many people decided that they could sell an app and make a profit. A decade and a half later, the overhead is the same but somehow people think they’re being treated unfairly. You can make the app, you can charge what you want, you can make the app for any and every platform. Where is the harm? Where is the anti-competitiveness?
    - Draiken 2y ago

m463 2y ago

also, you can't install software on your own device. Even when you can, you have to ask apple permission.

arresin 2y ago
The broader consumer base will install anything a bad actor wants them to and then blame the manufacturer for not stopping them with some draconian rule.
- smt88 2y ago
  The Play Store proves you absolutely wrong about this. It was an unfiltered Wild West until very recently.
- TheDong 2y ago
  Please, side-loading is usually an annoying involved process targeted at developers which the average consumer cannot accidentally do. A bad actor would have better luck telling a victim "just ship me your phone and login password for some emergency maintenance" than instructing a user through sideloading an app onto their smart fridge. I, personally, would be happy if iOS had android-style side-loading where you have to enable developer mode, promise you're not an idiot, and go from there.
  - m463 2y ago
    the fact that "side-loading" is even a name is sort of ridiculous. Even on apple's other operating system it is just downloading and running a program. I remember when you could just stick a floppy or later cd into a system from anywhere and install and run a program. it was called "install and run".
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  This expectation exists because Apple/Google/monopolists sell it. But it's not realistic, the app stores are cesspools. We need a culture shift to being more selective about installing software. Clearer permissions, better architecture, and trusted repositories with reputations to maintain. Installing software without any validation of safety should be possible but scary (show a terminal log reporting useful technical information or something).
  - itissid 2y ago
    Permissioning is a mess – among other things of course. I feel that permissions to access any resource(image, location, files etc) could be given without necessarily giving access to the PII value that resource holds, e.g. running a no side effects function on it on-device or on a trusted service that is readonly to me and write-only to 3rd parties.

sepositus 2y ago

> All while their tools that developers _have_ to use are buggy and often nigh unsusable (Apple Connect....). I'm moving to a job where I don't have to be the build/devops engineer for a product with an iOS app. To say I'm relieved wouldn't even be the half of it. What made it particularly worse was that our release cycle was every two months which is just enough time for Apple to completely wreck the build. Absolutely terrible experience.

stahtops 2y ago

[flagged]

Draiken 2y ago
You go where your customers are. Companies can't ignore Apple if they want to sell in the US so they're forced into their ecosystem. It's not a preference like you imply. I'll never understand how people defend blatantly anti-competitive behavior even when it hurts themselves.
- stahtops 2y ago
  Our priorities just aren't aligned, I am not being measurably hurt by any of the AppStore rules cyberax laid out. I don't want to be forced or even prompted to fill out my personal information on every apps website. To me that sounds like an increased burden of my time, and it puts my personal information at higher risk to be gathered and sold or leaked. I prefer the transaction to happen within the app on iOS conforming to the UI/UX standards that Apple has established. I know exactly what happens when we just let the free market "manage" anything. Utter chaos. We get an internet that is completely and utterly infected with ads, spam, and scams. No thanks.
  - viridian 2y ago
    Why did you choose to write your first post in bad faith?
    - stahtops 2y ago
      Not bad faith. In 2006, the AppStore didn’t exist. In 2008, it did. Many people decided that they could sell an app and make a profit. A decade and a half later, the overhead is the same but somehow people think they’re being treated unfairly. You can make the app, you can charge what you want, you can make the app for any and every platform. Where is the harm? Where is the anti-competitiveness?
  - Draiken 2y ago