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yet another "use-after-free" sploit Rust for Linux, wen? It's a damn shame the current maintainers are so hostile to its adoption that many of the original ru

by xyst 1y ago

yet another "use-after-free" sploit Rust for Linux, wen? It's a damn shame the current maintainers are so hostile to its adoption that many of the original rust 4 linux folks have left the project.

doug713705 1y ago
Did they start their own project ? Linux is free, just fork it.
- klysm 1y ago
  The 'just' doesn't belong in front of 'fork'.
- surajrmal 1y ago
  There are a lot of entities involved that need to be able to work together. Creating a form fractures things and requires all partners to move to said fork. It's far easier to work upstream even with resistance. Anyone who has maintained a long standing Linux fork understands the costs of trying to rebase thousands of patches. There will never be enough of a migration to make it unnecessary to need to rebase.
  - riehwvfbk 1y ago
    "Hey upstream maintainer, let me commit a bunch of code in a language you can't even read. You get to maintain it forever while I get to move on to bigger and better things. I am better that you after all: I know this cool new language and you don't." And this didn't go over well. Shocking.
    - seanhunter 1y ago
      That isn't a remotely fair characterization of what the rust for linux team were saying. In particular they committed to maintaining it. https://lwn.net/Articles/1006805/ https://lwn.net/Articles/1006805/ "We wrote a single piece of Rust code that abstracts the C API for all Rust drivers, which we offer to maintain ourselves". I wish that HN as a whole could maintain a respectful and curious tone of debate when these threads come up. Feel like both rust advocates and skeptics could do a lot better.
xen2xen1 1y ago
Rust, the new "I use Arch, BTW"
poincaredisk 1y ago
Counterargument: Linux is almost 35 years old (wow, time flies). Rust for Linux is a project started at the moment of biggest rust hype. It's understandable that the Linux maintainers are wary of introducing too much rust dependence, in case, for example, all the rust people leave in 5 years and current/old maintainers are stuck with it forever
- Ygg2 1y ago
  Counterargument Counterargument: one would think 35 years is enough to work out the memory safety kinks. If C people can't sort it, a new solution needs to be used. Not necessarily Rust, but something memory safe. Perhaps Java (if maintenance is that important) :P
  - procaryote 1y ago
    go do it then...
    - Ygg2 1y ago
      Because it worked out so well for Rust in Linux? Linux issues are not purely technical. There is the social inertia.
      - procaryote 1y ago
        Does social inertia mean "the people actually working on it has opinions about the work they're doing"? Because that seems fine.
        Ygg2 1y ago
        > the people actually working on it has opinions about the work they're doing No. They have opinions and take actions to subvert related work. See people literally stopping a presentation to gripe about Rust cultists, or Hellwig throwing a hissy fit because he doesn't like that Rust code is adjacent to his DMA controller. This isn't technical discussion, this is Office Politics 104.
deleted 1y ago
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by xyst 1y ago

yet another "use-after-free" sploit Rust for Linux, wen? It's a damn shame the current maintainers are so hostile to its adoption that many of the original rust 4 linux folks have left the project.

doug713705 1y ago

Did they start their own project ? Linux is free, just fork it.

klysm 1y ago
The 'just' doesn't belong in front of 'fork'.
surajrmal 1y ago
There are a lot of entities involved that need to be able to work together. Creating a form fractures things and requires all partners to move to said fork. It's far easier to work upstream even with resistance. Anyone who has maintained a long standing Linux fork understands the costs of trying to rebase thousands of patches. There will never be enough of a migration to make it unnecessary to need to rebase.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  "Hey upstream maintainer, let me commit a bunch of code in a language you can't even read. You get to maintain it forever while I get to move on to bigger and better things. I am better that you after all: I know this cool new language and you don't." And this didn't go over well. Shocking.
  - seanhunter 1y ago
    That isn't a remotely fair characterization of what the rust for linux team were saying. In particular they committed to maintaining it. https://lwn.net/Articles/1006805/ https://lwn.net/Articles/1006805/ "We wrote a single piece of Rust code that abstracts the C API for all Rust drivers, which we offer to maintain ourselves". I wish that HN as a whole could maintain a respectful and curious tone of debate when these threads come up. Feel like both rust advocates and skeptics could do a lot better.

xen2xen1 1y ago

Rust, the new "I use Arch, BTW"

poincaredisk 1y ago

Counterargument: Linux is almost 35 years old (wow, time flies). Rust for Linux is a project started at the moment of biggest rust hype. It's understandable that the Linux maintainers are wary of introducing too much rust dependence, in case, for example, all the rust people leave in 5 years and current/old maintainers are stuck with it forever

Ygg2 1y ago
Counterargument Counterargument: one would think 35 years is enough to work out the memory safety kinks. If C people can't sort it, a new solution needs to be used. Not necessarily Rust, but something memory safe. Perhaps Java (if maintenance is that important) :P
- procaryote 1y ago
  go do it then...
  - Ygg2 1y ago
    Because it worked out so well for Rust in Linux? Linux issues are not purely technical. There is the social inertia.
    - procaryote 1y ago
      Does social inertia mean "the people actually working on it has opinions about the work they're doing"? Because that seems fine.
      - Ygg2 1y ago
        > the people actually working on it has opinions about the work they're doing No. They have opinions and take actions to subvert related work. See people literally stopping a presentation to gripe about Rust cultists, or Hellwig throwing a hissy fit because he doesn't like that Rust code is adjacent to his DMA controller. This isn't technical discussion, this is Office Politics 104.

deleted 1y ago

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