4 ms·

> One factor Google didn’t cite was the new trader status rule enforced by the EU as of this February, which began requiring developers to share their names and

> One factor Google didn’t cite was the new trader status rule enforced by the EU as of this February, which began requiring developers to share their names and addresses in the app’s listing. Yep, it was probably that.

Aerroon 2y ago
This effectively kills apps that are made by individuals or very small businesses that can't afford an office. It's kind of incredible how the EU makes changes like this and then politicians scratch their heads about the weakness of European tech. You would think that the politicians would give some thought to that and make it easier/cheaper to fulfill these requirements, but nope. Either pay up for a company (hundreds of euros) and an office (hundreds of euros) or just have your information publicly available. And when that information becomes publicly available you will be inundated with spam. On top of that some services will then take Google street view pictures of your home and link all of that information together in an easily searchable database.
- leonidasv 2y ago
  Apparently you can use a P.O. Box as address for this purpose[0] when registering for AppStore, which is substantially cheaper. However, Reddit says Google does not accept P.O. Boxes [1], so the only option is a "virtual" office address or something like that. A shame. [0] https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-compliance-information/manage-european-union-digital-services-act-trader-requirements/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-co... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1f4nmny/comment/lp5jxqt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1f4nmny/comment...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  > the EU makes changes like this The actual change is not by the EU, but by Google who interprets a EU directive and decides how to apply it to its platform. This is a big difference, in that the EU requires a verified _contact_ address for _traders_ operating on a marketplace. From there Google deciding to blanket require onerous verification on anyone publishing any app is Google's call and they should get the blame for it. For comparison you get a different application of the same rules on the AppStore, and none of that for F-Droid.
  - sib 2y ago
    Well, if it's easier for Google to require it of everyone instead of a subset (and less risky if they should happen to miss someone who's not a "trader"), then it is entirely reasonable to blame it on the EU. Before the rule was put in place by the EU, Google didn't require it; after they did. I'm sure Google didn't go through the design, development, testing, compliance and legal analysis of deploying this requirement for the fun of it.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      This would be a stronger argument if Google had a track record of caring about their devs, partners and proper business practices. At this point it's not that far from anthropomorphising the lawnmower.
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    Doesn't Steam do the same thing? And even registering a company in (some) EU countries has effectively the same address requirement where a PO box is not allowed. Also, when I said "changes like this" I mean changes in general where there seems to be no analysis on the knock-on effects of a policy change causes. Another example from the EU was their VAT change they did some years ago. On the surface it was a decent change, because it made multinationals pay VAT in the countries of the buyers, but it had the downside that it drowned small and micro businesses in so much paperwork that a lot of them shut down or stopped serving customers in other EU countries. Why? Because they forgot to add a minimum threshold for when these VAT rules apply. Something that most EU countries have. Imagine you start selling 3D models, your revenue is €500 in a year and for this money you're expected to file with 27 different tax authorities who all deal mainly in a different language. Is the €10 sale worth dealing with the Latvian tax authority? It took the EU about 5-6 years to finally fix this by introducing a €10,000 exemption.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > It's kind of incredible how the EU makes changes like this Haha, how perverse from Google to blame the EU. Google just want more data from you.
dusted 2y ago
Yep, this is why I dropped out.
sschueller 2y ago
My personal phone number is listed on Google play because I could not get my business number verified. I tried for weeks.
- cyral 2y ago
  Almost the same here until they let us verify by document. Can't receive texts to our support number, and also can't get the verification code by phone since there is a "Press 1 for ___" thing at the beginning of the call.
trunch 2y ago
I'm usually very supportive of EU tech regulation, but to be honest I don't really want to put my name and address up on apps I throw up on the store Would like to keep my identity separate to whatever projects I have usually, especially if they're ones that don't 100% align with the your own developer brand that employers might screen for
- ragnese 2y ago
  I have the same mentality as you. But, rather than form an opinion on whatever EU regulation is being interpreted as "requiring" these steps from Google et al, I think I'm going to assert that it's a red herring. The real issue, IMO, is that it's still too hard to distribute and install applications on my general-purpose computing devices! You can't be on Google's app store if you aren't a "real business" with a physical address and everything? Fine. Let's just distribute our apps on F-Droid, or by just releasing APKs in our GitHub pages, etc. At least that's still possible with Android. But who knows how much longer they'll even allow that?
  - LPisGood 2y ago
    I think the issue may be thinking of your phone, running a non-open OS, as a general-purpose computing device.
  - braiamp 2y ago
    Yeah, if you have a market that can be installed by the user without passing through a marketplace. The EU regulation gets blamed, but that's not the actual issue.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    Presumably F-Droid is subject to the same regulatory requirements, so in this case it is directly the regulation to blame.
    - iAMkenough 2y ago
      F-Droid isn’t in the same business, and doesn’t sell apps, so it’s not subject to the same regulatory requirements.
tslocum 2y ago
Several FOSS apps of mine were removed from Google Play because of this. I wrote about one solution for other affected developers here: https://rocket9labs.com/post/on-the-importance-of-f-droid/ https://rocket9labs.com/post/on-the-importance-of-f-droid/
stringtoint 2y ago
Agreed. My 3 free apps, one with +100k downloads were also removed because of the EU ruling. Don't want my personal address and phone number to be more accessible to bad actors more than it already is. While I can somewhat follow the idea, the execution in practice has serious flaws.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > were also removed because of the EU ruling. It has nothing to do with EU. see jwz.
LVB 2y ago
Doesn't Apple require this too? (https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-compliance-information/manage-european-union-digital-services-act-trader-requirements/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-co...)

Aerroon 2y ago

This effectively kills apps that are made by individuals or very small businesses that can't afford an office. It's kind of incredible how the EU makes changes like this and then politicians scratch their heads about the weakness of European tech. You would think that the politicians would give some thought to that and make it easier/cheaper to fulfill these requirements, but nope. Either pay up for a company (hundreds of euros) and an office (hundreds of euros) or just have your information publicly available. And when that information becomes publicly available you will be inundated with spam. On top of that some services will then take Google street view pictures of your home and link all of that information together in an easily searchable database.

leonidasv 2y ago
Apparently you can use a P.O. Box as address for this purpose[0] when registering for AppStore, which is substantially cheaper. However, Reddit says Google does not accept P.O. Boxes [1], so the only option is a "virtual" office address or something like that. A shame. [0] https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-compliance-information/manage-european-union-digital-services-act-trader-requirements/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-co... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1f4nmny/comment/lp5jxqt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/1f4nmny/comment...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
makeitdouble 2y ago
> the EU makes changes like this The actual change is not by the EU, but by Google who interprets a EU directive and decides how to apply it to its platform. This is a big difference, in that the EU requires a verified _contact_ address for _traders_ operating on a marketplace. From there Google deciding to blanket require onerous verification on anyone publishing any app is Google's call and they should get the blame for it. For comparison you get a different application of the same rules on the AppStore, and none of that for F-Droid.
- sib 2y ago
  Well, if it's easier for Google to require it of everyone instead of a subset (and less risky if they should happen to miss someone who's not a "trader"), then it is entirely reasonable to blame it on the EU. Before the rule was put in place by the EU, Google didn't require it; after they did. I'm sure Google didn't go through the design, development, testing, compliance and legal analysis of deploying this requirement for the fun of it.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    This would be a stronger argument if Google had a track record of caring about their devs, partners and proper business practices. At this point it's not that far from anthropomorphising the lawnmower.
- Aerroon 2y ago
  Doesn't Steam do the same thing? And even registering a company in (some) EU countries has effectively the same address requirement where a PO box is not allowed. Also, when I said "changes like this" I mean changes in general where there seems to be no analysis on the knock-on effects of a policy change causes. Another example from the EU was their VAT change they did some years ago. On the surface it was a decent change, because it made multinationals pay VAT in the countries of the buyers, but it had the downside that it drowned small and micro businesses in so much paperwork that a lot of them shut down or stopped serving customers in other EU countries. Why? Because they forgot to add a minimum threshold for when these VAT rules apply. Something that most EU countries have. Imagine you start selling 3D models, your revenue is €500 in a year and for this money you're expected to file with 27 different tax authorities who all deal mainly in a different language. Is the €10 sale worth dealing with the Latvian tax authority? It took the EU about 5-6 years to finally fix this by introducing a €10,000 exemption.
hulitu 2y ago
> It's kind of incredible how the EU makes changes like this Haha, how perverse from Google to blame the EU. Google just want more data from you.

dusted 2y ago

Yep, this is why I dropped out.

sschueller 2y ago

My personal phone number is listed on Google play because I could not get my business number verified. I tried for weeks.

cyral 2y ago
Almost the same here until they let us verify by document. Can't receive texts to our support number, and also can't get the verification code by phone since there is a "Press 1 for ___" thing at the beginning of the call.

trunch 2y ago

I'm usually very supportive of EU tech regulation, but to be honest I don't really want to put my name and address up on apps I throw up on the store Would like to keep my identity separate to whatever projects I have usually, especially if they're ones that don't 100% align with the your own developer brand that employers might screen for

ragnese 2y ago
I have the same mentality as you. But, rather than form an opinion on whatever EU regulation is being interpreted as "requiring" these steps from Google et al, I think I'm going to assert that it's a red herring. The real issue, IMO, is that it's still too hard to distribute and install applications on my general-purpose computing devices! You can't be on Google's app store if you aren't a "real business" with a physical address and everything? Fine. Let's just distribute our apps on F-Droid, or by just releasing APKs in our GitHub pages, etc. At least that's still possible with Android. But who knows how much longer they'll even allow that?
- LPisGood 2y ago
  I think the issue may be thinking of your phone, running a non-open OS, as a general-purpose computing device.
- braiamp 2y ago
  Yeah, if you have a market that can be installed by the user without passing through a marketplace. The EU regulation gets blamed, but that's not the actual issue.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  Presumably F-Droid is subject to the same regulatory requirements, so in this case it is directly the regulation to blame.
  - iAMkenough 2y ago
    F-Droid isn’t in the same business, and doesn’t sell apps, so it’s not subject to the same regulatory requirements.

tslocum 2y ago

Several FOSS apps of mine were removed from Google Play because of this. I wrote about one solution for other affected developers here: https://rocket9labs.com/post/on-the-importance-of-f-droid/ https://rocket9labs.com/post/on-the-importance-of-f-droid/

stringtoint 2y ago

Agreed. My 3 free apps, one with +100k downloads were also removed because of the EU ruling. Don't want my personal address and phone number to be more accessible to bad actors more than it already is. While I can somewhat follow the idea, the execution in practice has serious flaws.

hulitu 2y ago
> were also removed because of the EU ruling. It has nothing to do with EU. see jwz.

LVB 2y ago

Doesn't Apple require this too? (https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-compliance-information/manage-european-union-digital-services-act-trader-requirements/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/manage-co...)