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Sun greatly revitalized "Unix" in the 00s! Need I refer you to Bryan Cantrill's screed about how OS research was not boring? The list of features that shipped

Sun greatly revitalized "Unix" in the 00s! Need I refer you to Bryan Cantrill's screed about how OS research was not boring? The list of features that shipped in the 00s is amazing: - DTrace - FMA/FMD - SMF - ZFS - the unified process model - NFSv4 - CIFS - and more and this was while being hamstrung by a crappy SVR4 networking architecture that the networking team was able to kill off (thank goodness). Some of these are things not yet re-invented elsewhere, others re-invented poorly: - systemd is a bad SMF - SystemTap is a bad DTrace - eBPF is pretty cool but in some key ways not as good as DTrace - ZFS remains unparalleled

ajross 1y ago
Yeah, this turns into senseless flaming very quickly. But to be blunt, the fact that puts the lie to your point that all those technologies are "revitalizing" or whatever is that basically no one uses them[1]. They're interesting ways to win an argument on the internet (with which I won't engage), but not evidence that you're doing something actually important. [1] Obviously people use them! But not at scale and not in such a way that it provides meaningful advantage over the people who don't use them. Again, they're fun things to argue about but not transformative in the way that early SunOS was.
- cryptonector 1y ago
  The fact that they've been copied is telling enough: others needed things like those. Either Sun was too early with some of these or Sun couldn't capitalize on them, or both. Sun definitely was too early with certain things like cloud (the Sun Grid). Was SunOS 4 as transformative as BSD?
  - ajross 1y ago
    Again, 100% not going to engage on another senseless ZFS/dtrace/whatever platform flame. But this point is worth responding to: > Was SunOS 4 as transformative as BSD? SunOS was BSD! 3BSD was absolutely transformative. But 4BSD launched after Joy and much of the team were already working at Sun, and almost all future "BSD" innovations of note were actually SunOS features. Sun took a historically important but otherwise obscure academic platform (total VAX BSD deployments as of 1982 were what, in the dozens?) and turned it into an industry-defining software environment that we still use today (albeit in cloned form).
- mzs 1y ago
  $ uname -srm; which dtrace; mount | head -1; apropos zfsd FreeBSD 13.4-RELEASE-p3 amd64 /usr/sbin/dtrace zroot/ROOT/default on / (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) zfsd(8) - ZFS fault management daemon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mzs 1y ago
I still miss mdb.
- cryptonector 1y ago
  Oh yeah, how can I not have listed mdb!

ajross 1y ago

Yeah, this turns into senseless flaming very quickly. But to be blunt, the fact that puts the lie to your point that all those technologies are "revitalizing" or whatever is that basically no one uses them[1]. They're interesting ways to win an argument on the internet (with which I won't engage), but not evidence that you're doing something actually important. [1] Obviously people use them! But not at scale and not in such a way that it provides meaningful advantage over the people who don't use them. Again, they're fun things to argue about but not transformative in the way that early SunOS was.

cryptonector 1y ago
The fact that they've been copied is telling enough: others needed things like those. Either Sun was too early with some of these or Sun couldn't capitalize on them, or both. Sun definitely was too early with certain things like cloud (the Sun Grid). Was SunOS 4 as transformative as BSD?
- ajross 1y ago
  Again, 100% not going to engage on another senseless ZFS/dtrace/whatever platform flame. But this point is worth responding to: > Was SunOS 4 as transformative as BSD? SunOS was BSD! 3BSD was absolutely transformative. But 4BSD launched after Joy and much of the team were already working at Sun, and almost all future "BSD" innovations of note were actually SunOS features. Sun took a historically important but otherwise obscure academic platform (total VAX BSD deployments as of 1982 were what, in the dozens?) and turned it into an industry-defining software environment that we still use today (albeit in cloned form).
mzs 1y ago
$ uname -srm; which dtrace; mount | head -1; apropos zfsd FreeBSD 13.4-RELEASE-p3 amd64 /usr/sbin/dtrace zroot/ROOT/default on / (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) zfsd(8) - ZFS fault management daemon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mzs 1y ago

I still miss mdb.

cryptonector 1y ago
Oh yeah, how can I not have listed mdb!