5 ms·

I currently rent with roommates at 28 and commute 40 minutes, it does feel a bit embarrassing but I get to save a bit. But that is not enough to build any mean

I currently rent with roommates at 28 and commute 40 minutes, it does feel a bit embarrassing but I get to save a bit. But that is not enough to build any meaningful wealth, 12k over a year is peanuts, it takes over a decade to save 100k good luck buying a house… I am genuinely baffled as to how I could potentially escape this… My only exit is over employment or launching some successful business.

deadbabe 1y ago
The escape is to go to parts of the country where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. Instead they bury their head in the sand and hope their hip urban centers suddenly become affordable.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  Can they find a good paying job there in their chosen profession? Are there social opportunities for finding mates with matching interests? What are the art and music scenes like? There are a lot more things people think about than cheap housing.
- Saline9515 1y ago
  There is a reason for the low demand, usually lack of economic activity and infrastructure. It may work if you're a senior IT freelancer, for other trades... less so.
- aquova 1y ago
  I'm not sure living in a shack in the desert will help with the 40 minute commute
  - korse 1y ago
    TBH 1 hr commute is fine if it never includes gridlock or slow traffic. Driving sans annoyances is quite zen and changing conditions can be fun. The worst part is increased vehicle maintenance but if the job is worth it then who cares.
- ch4s3 1y ago
  > where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. No one does it because there are no jobs in those places. We're failing as a society to build sufficient housing in areas of economic opportunity. In some areas we're moving backwards, Manhattan housed 300K more people in 1950 than it does today. Not every job can be remote and most types of work benefit from agglomeration effects. Pretending that we can will people to live middle Pennsylvania by creating jobs somehow is foolish when we could simply build housing where the jobs already are.
- chneu 1y ago
  Ah yes. Move somewhere where there aren't any jobs. Gotcha.
rufus_foreman 1y ago
>> it takes over a decade to save 100k good luck buying a house First time home buyers (meaning those who haven't owned a home in the last three years) can get a loan with a down payment of 3%. 12k would be the down payment for a $400,000 house. The average home price in the US is around $350,000. There are even better deals available for some people, military veterans for example.
- hnthrow90348765 1y ago
  My guess is you will see more people try to move into the military/police for these benefits and pensions once they do the math. The military/police also suffers different image problems than corporate jobs, but advancement and benefits is not one of them. (I am thinking military -> cleared jobs, not within the military)
- PartiallyTyped 1y ago
  In Dublin — where I lived and rent is 2k unless you live 50 minutes away or manage to find roommates, your mortgage is 3x your salary, so at 130k I made at the time, about 400k, and I’d need 20% down payment… Good luck buying your own house/apartment without being married. It isn’t happening.
- lp0_on_fire 1y ago
  These deals are a joke and unattainable to the vast majority of people in the post-covid economy. paying $12k down on a $400k house with a fixed 6.48% rate means your monthly payment is almost $3k per month, and you'll pay more than the house is worth in interest alone. Not to mention if you only have $12k to put down you're _probably_ not in a position to pay $3k a month.
  - Aloisius 1y ago
    > and you'll pay more than the house is worth in interest alone And you'll pay most of it in the future when when money is worth less than today.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
swatcoder 1y ago
> I am genuinely baffled as to how I could potentially escape this… > My only exit is over employment or launching some successful business. This reads like you've already reached the peak of your career at 28. Do you really feel that way? That seems pretty unusual for a skilled worker, like you'd seem to be if you're able to bank 12k in savings per year already, and as most commenters on HN are. More usually, you'd expect to be earning much more in 10 years than you do today and perhaps even a fair amount more 10 yeads later depending on what you're capabilities and opportunities turn out to be. Do you not feel like that's in the cards for you? Why?
- PartiallyTyped 1y ago
  I work as a senior engineer in Germany, I make more than most people, but I find it frustrating that a new grad could make more than I do by virtue of living in the states for lower quality work. My expenses are about 40% of my net income and yet owning a house or apartment in a city like Munich or Dublin and close to jobs looks infeasible unless I am married. That of course excludes the fact that I don’t expect to live to see my 50s because of potential health concerns. And of course, should I spend my 20s and 30s working for seemingly nothing?
  - jajko 1y ago
    > and close to jobs That is the core problem, world is much fuller, quadruple that for any major city where most (not only) HN crowd finds good work unless remote. And unsurprisingly, almost everybody wants piece of that extremely limited pie that isn't growing. > And of course, should I spend my 20s and 30s working for seemingly nothing? Considering the sentence above you most probably shouldn't. Now how to get most out of such situation I have no clue since I know nothing about it, but some mode of frugal living with tons of personal time (spent ie outdoors) seems like best course. Or move to some cheap dirty tropical paradise that will cost you 500 euro per month and live with locals. Personal 2 euro cents - maybe world changed dramatically in past 15 years in this regard but I don't think so, not Europe at least. When I was moving to Switzerland back then I had some limited savings (with rather modest mortgage elsewhere that was steadily eating that), I moved directly into Zurich (because its the biggest place and I know german good enough to pass interviews), while not having neither job already nor even a place to sleep. Literally one Saturday morning I stepped out of coach bus in Zurich bus station with big backpack and suit in envelope on my back. Adventure begins (or continues, see below). First job - find where I will sleep tonight. Managed to find some student dormitory that was also open to outsiders during summer (lonely planet). Once there, started looking for a room to rent, found and arranged it in 4 days, it costed me 700 CHF per month, and this was central Zurich! Total monthly expenses were around 1100chf, very frugal period but I found it liberating. I walked around in forests a lot, took trains to Alps over weekends. Only once I had that place I started a job search (you need Swiss phone nr and be available for in-person interviews within a day or two), took me 2.5 months to find actually 2 good offers (this was quite recent after 2008 crash where folks were advising me against such risky moves, job market wasn't the best). Of course the uncertainty and dwindling savings + mortgage also put some pressure and uneasiness on me, worthy things in life never come without some effort and suffering. Literally none of my peers wanted to go down this road, they had comfy jobs, but almost all wanted me to find them work in Switzerland once I had landed. LOL that's not how life (or moving to Switzerland) works. What helped me I backpacked through India for 3 months before starting all this after quitting previous job, so frugality was just continuation of already started trend. Nature is for free, so is exercise, and Swiss have tons of those. What I want to say with all this - you have options, way more than you realize. Follow the path of your own happiness and fulfillment whatever it means for you specifically. Good luck
DragonStrength 1y ago
Even if you thread the needle and pull it off (2 high-paying jobs in a household in time for kids), you'll find the infrastructure and community around those well-paying jobs aren't designed for kids and most others didn't thread the needle. It certainly feels like picking between where having kids is within reach versus where the "well-paying" jobs are.

deadbabe 1y ago

The escape is to go to parts of the country where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. Instead they bury their head in the sand and hope their hip urban centers suddenly become affordable.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
Can they find a good paying job there in their chosen profession? Are there social opportunities for finding mates with matching interests? What are the art and music scenes like? There are a lot more things people think about than cheap housing.
Saline9515 1y ago
There is a reason for the low demand, usually lack of economic activity and infrastructure. It may work if you're a senior IT freelancer, for other trades... less so.
aquova 1y ago
I'm not sure living in a shack in the desert will help with the 40 minute commute
- korse 1y ago
  TBH 1 hr commute is fine if it never includes gridlock or slow traffic. Driving sans annoyances is quite zen and changing conditions can be fun. The worst part is increased vehicle maintenance but if the job is worth it then who cares.
ch4s3 1y ago
> where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. No one does it because there are no jobs in those places. We're failing as a society to build sufficient housing in areas of economic opportunity. In some areas we're moving backwards, Manhattan housed 300K more people in 1950 than it does today. Not every job can be remote and most types of work benefit from agglomeration effects. Pretending that we can will people to live middle Pennsylvania by creating jobs somehow is foolish when we could simply build housing where the jobs already are.
chneu 1y ago
Ah yes. Move somewhere where there aren't any jobs. Gotcha.

rufus_foreman 1y ago

>> it takes over a decade to save 100k good luck buying a house First time home buyers (meaning those who haven't owned a home in the last three years) can get a loan with a down payment of 3%. 12k would be the down payment for a $400,000 house. The average home price in the US is around $350,000. There are even better deals available for some people, military veterans for example.

hnthrow90348765 1y ago
My guess is you will see more people try to move into the military/police for these benefits and pensions once they do the math. The military/police also suffers different image problems than corporate jobs, but advancement and benefits is not one of them. (I am thinking military -> cleared jobs, not within the military)
PartiallyTyped 1y ago
In Dublin — where I lived and rent is 2k unless you live 50 minutes away or manage to find roommates, your mortgage is 3x your salary, so at 130k I made at the time, about 400k, and I’d need 20% down payment… Good luck buying your own house/apartment without being married. It isn’t happening.
lp0_on_fire 1y ago
These deals are a joke and unattainable to the vast majority of people in the post-covid economy. paying $12k down on a $400k house with a fixed 6.48% rate means your monthly payment is almost $3k per month, and you'll pay more than the house is worth in interest alone. Not to mention if you only have $12k to put down you're _probably_ not in a position to pay $3k a month.
- Aloisius 1y ago
  > and you'll pay more than the house is worth in interest alone And you'll pay most of it in the future when when money is worth less than today.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

swatcoder 1y ago

> I am genuinely baffled as to how I could potentially escape this… > My only exit is over employment or launching some successful business. This reads like you've already reached the peak of your career at 28. Do you really feel that way? That seems pretty unusual for a skilled worker, like you'd seem to be if you're able to bank 12k in savings per year already, and as most commenters on HN are. More usually, you'd expect to be earning much more in 10 years than you do today and perhaps even a fair amount more 10 yeads later depending on what you're capabilities and opportunities turn out to be. Do you not feel like that's in the cards for you? Why?

PartiallyTyped 1y ago
I work as a senior engineer in Germany, I make more than most people, but I find it frustrating that a new grad could make more than I do by virtue of living in the states for lower quality work. My expenses are about 40% of my net income and yet owning a house or apartment in a city like Munich or Dublin and close to jobs looks infeasible unless I am married. That of course excludes the fact that I don’t expect to live to see my 50s because of potential health concerns. And of course, should I spend my 20s and 30s working for seemingly nothing?
- jajko 1y ago
  > and close to jobs That is the core problem, world is much fuller, quadruple that for any major city where most (not only) HN crowd finds good work unless remote. And unsurprisingly, almost everybody wants piece of that extremely limited pie that isn't growing. > And of course, should I spend my 20s and 30s working for seemingly nothing? Considering the sentence above you most probably shouldn't. Now how to get most out of such situation I have no clue since I know nothing about it, but some mode of frugal living with tons of personal time (spent ie outdoors) seems like best course. Or move to some cheap dirty tropical paradise that will cost you 500 euro per month and live with locals. Personal 2 euro cents - maybe world changed dramatically in past 15 years in this regard but I don't think so, not Europe at least. When I was moving to Switzerland back then I had some limited savings (with rather modest mortgage elsewhere that was steadily eating that), I moved directly into Zurich (because its the biggest place and I know german good enough to pass interviews), while not having neither job already nor even a place to sleep. Literally one Saturday morning I stepped out of coach bus in Zurich bus station with big backpack and suit in envelope on my back. Adventure begins (or continues, see below). First job - find where I will sleep tonight. Managed to find some student dormitory that was also open to outsiders during summer (lonely planet). Once there, started looking for a room to rent, found and arranged it in 4 days, it costed me 700 CHF per month, and this was central Zurich! Total monthly expenses were around 1100chf, very frugal period but I found it liberating. I walked around in forests a lot, took trains to Alps over weekends. Only once I had that place I started a job search (you need Swiss phone nr and be available for in-person interviews within a day or two), took me 2.5 months to find actually 2 good offers (this was quite recent after 2008 crash where folks were advising me against such risky moves, job market wasn't the best). Of course the uncertainty and dwindling savings + mortgage also put some pressure and uneasiness on me, worthy things in life never come without some effort and suffering. Literally none of my peers wanted to go down this road, they had comfy jobs, but almost all wanted me to find them work in Switzerland once I had landed. LOL that's not how life (or moving to Switzerland) works. What helped me I backpacked through India for 3 months before starting all this after quitting previous job, so frugality was just continuation of already started trend. Nature is for free, so is exercise, and Swiss have tons of those. What I want to say with all this - you have options, way more than you realize. Follow the path of your own happiness and fulfillment whatever it means for you specifically. Good luck

DragonStrength 1y ago

Even if you thread the needle and pull it off (2 high-paying jobs in a household in time for kids), you'll find the infrastructure and community around those well-paying jobs aren't designed for kids and most others didn't thread the needle. It certainly feels like picking between where having kids is within reach versus where the "well-paying" jobs are.