4 ms·

They rather ridiculously discuss an OS as if all that mattered was the UI.

nottorp 1y ago
It matters a lot, it's one of the reasons we're still waiting for the year of Linux on the desktop? And on small screen devices with the sole input a fat finger it matters even more if you ask me.
- damnitbuilds 1y ago
  UI is a layer on top of the OS. It is not the OS.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Only on the UNIX world. On the desktop world, the UI is a component of the OS, and is responsible of the whole OS experience. Hence why the successful OSes that happen to have UNIX internals, those internals are not exposed to the users, and are not optional for most development scenarios. Hence why GNU/Linux on the desktop failed, while Linux kernel on the mobile and TVs with prescribed user and developer experience has succeed.
    - damnitbuilds 1y ago
      "UNIX" should be "Posix", I think. Not sure I agree with the last sentence, but an interesting point. Also, to what extent is the UI part of, for example, Windows 11 ? I think Windows can run headless ?
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Yes as the Server Core configuration it can, but you don't get to replace Win32 puzzle piece that goes on top with something else, you might augment it with alternative UI frameworks, but ultimately it is Win32 at the bottom layer. Just like on macOS, while UNIX on the bottom layer, you don't get to plug something else instead of WindowServer and related low level APIs. Even with XQuartz, it builds on top of it, just like they build on top of Win32 on Windows.
    - hulitu 1y ago
      > On the desktop world, the UI is a component of the OS, and is responsible of the whole OS experience. You mean iOS when the UI sucks ? Or Android ? Or Windows ? /s
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Compared with the fragmented way of UI/UX on traditional UNIX clones with special snowflakes on top of Xlib and whatever is the sound stack of the month, with exception of NeWS/NeXTSTEP/OS X, they suck less.
- ninalanyon 1y ago
  Linux works perfectly fine on my desktop.
  - banknote7106 1y ago
    Just by being in this comment section our experiences are outliers.
- hulitu 1y ago
  > we're still waiting for the year of Linux on the desktop ? Speak for yourself. We use linux as a desktop since 1997.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    Speak for yourself :) I used linux as a desktop until about 2013, then switched to Mac OS. My linux boxes are headless now.
jeroenhd 1y ago
It's discussing and product, and that's all the customer actually cares about. When tech news outlets discuss Google Android versus MIUI versus OneUI versus iOS versus iPadOS, they don't care about the way the kernel implements multithreading or what interrupt mechanisms the USB drivers use. Given its similarity, webOS and Android could be considered the same OS if you're looking at it from an OS designer point of view, but that's meaningless to the readers of this article.
- damnitbuilds 1y ago
  But they surely must care about how fast the OS is, what it can connect to, what protocols it supports. That is all about OS-without-UI. They should call sites like The Verge '"Tech" News'. Technical news for people who don't actually understand any of the actual technology involved.
  - hulitu 1y ago
    > But they surely must care about how fast the OS is, And how do you measure it ? iOS is fast to start but some functions need some time.
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    What it can connect to and what protocols it supports all depends on the software you run on it. As long as there is supports for basic I/O, you can run a modern copy of Chrome on it. That's why Android 7 and Windows XP can still be used for day-to-day browsing just fine, even though the OS itself stopped being supported and maintained years ago.

It matters a lot, it's one of the reasons we're still waiting for the year of Linux on the desktop? And on small screen devices with the sole input a fat finger it matters even more if you ask me.

damnitbuilds 1y ago
UI is a layer on top of the OS. It is not the OS.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Only on the UNIX world. On the desktop world, the UI is a component of the OS, and is responsible of the whole OS experience. Hence why the successful OSes that happen to have UNIX internals, those internals are not exposed to the users, and are not optional for most development scenarios. Hence why GNU/Linux on the desktop failed, while Linux kernel on the mobile and TVs with prescribed user and developer experience has succeed.
  - damnitbuilds 1y ago
    "UNIX" should be "Posix", I think. Not sure I agree with the last sentence, but an interesting point. Also, to what extent is the UI part of, for example, Windows 11 ? I think Windows can run headless ?
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Yes as the Server Core configuration it can, but you don't get to replace Win32 puzzle piece that goes on top with something else, you might augment it with alternative UI frameworks, but ultimately it is Win32 at the bottom layer. Just like on macOS, while UNIX on the bottom layer, you don't get to plug something else instead of WindowServer and related low level APIs. Even with XQuartz, it builds on top of it, just like they build on top of Win32 on Windows.
  - hulitu 1y ago
    > On the desktop world, the UI is a component of the OS, and is responsible of the whole OS experience. You mean iOS when the UI sucks ? Or Android ? Or Windows ? /s
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Compared with the fragmented way of UI/UX on traditional UNIX clones with special snowflakes on top of Xlib and whatever is the sound stack of the month, with exception of NeWS/NeXTSTEP/OS X, they suck less.
ninalanyon 1y ago
Linux works perfectly fine on my desktop.
- banknote7106 1y ago
  Just by being in this comment section our experiences are outliers.
hulitu 1y ago
> we're still waiting for the year of Linux on the desktop ? Speak for yourself. We use linux as a desktop since 1997.
- nottorp 1y ago
  Speak for yourself :) I used linux as a desktop until about 2013, then switched to Mac OS. My linux boxes are headless now.

jeroenhd 1y ago

It's discussing and product, and that's all the customer actually cares about. When tech news outlets discuss Google Android versus MIUI versus OneUI versus iOS versus iPadOS, they don't care about the way the kernel implements multithreading or what interrupt mechanisms the USB drivers use. Given its similarity, webOS and Android could be considered the same OS if you're looking at it from an OS designer point of view, but that's meaningless to the readers of this article.

damnitbuilds 1y ago
But they surely must care about how fast the OS is, what it can connect to, what protocols it supports. That is all about OS-without-UI. They should call sites like The Verge '"Tech" News'. Technical news for people who don't actually understand any of the actual technology involved.
- hulitu 1y ago
  > But they surely must care about how fast the OS is, And how do you measure it ? iOS is fast to start but some functions need some time.
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  What it can connect to and what protocols it supports all depends on the software you run on it. As long as there is supports for basic I/O, you can run a modern copy of Chrome on it. That's why Android 7 and Windows XP can still be used for day-to-day browsing just fine, even though the OS itself stopped being supported and maintained years ago.