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I do think the blog post has a sycophantic vibe too. Not sure if that‘s intended.
by manmal 1y ago
I do think the blog post has a sycophantic vibe too. Not sure if that‘s intended.
- cameldrv 1y agoIt also has an em-dash
- spiderfarmer 1y agoOne of the biggest tells.
- d1sxeyes 1y agoFor us habitual users of em-dashes, it is saddening to have to think twice about using them lest someone think we are using an LLM to write…
- breakingcups 1y agoMy wife is a professional fiction writer and it's disheartening to see sudden accusations of the use of AI based solely on the usage of em-dashes.
- spiderfarmer 1y agoDoes it really matter though? I just focus on the point someone is trying to make, not on the tools they use to make it.
- ceejayoz 1y agoYou’ve never run into a human with a tendency to bullshit about things they don’t have knowledge of?
- mortarion 1y agoI too use em-dashes all the time, and semi-colons of course.
- jillyboel 1y agoMost keyboards don't have an em-dash key, so what do you expect?
- alwa 1y agoOn an Apple OS running default settings, two hyphens in a row will suffice—
- throwaway2037 1y agoI also use em-dash regularly. In Microsoft Outlook and Microsoft Word, when you type double dash, then space, it will be converted to an em-dash. This is how most normies type an em-dash.
- chipsrafferty 1y agoI'm not reading most conversations on Outlook or Word, so explain how they do it on reddit and other sites? Are you suggesting they draft comments in Word and then copy them over?
- slau 1y agoI don’t think there’s a need to use Word. On iOS, I can trivially access those characters—just hold down the dash key in the symbols part of the keyboard. You can also get the en-dash that way (–) but as discussed it’s less useful in English. I don’t know if it works on the Finnish keyboard, but when I switch to another Scandinavian language it’s still working fine. On macOS, option-dash will give you an en-dash, and option-shift-dash will give you an em-dash. It’s fantastic that just because some people don’t know how to use their keyboards, all of a sudden anyone else who does is considered a fraud.
- throwaway2037 1y agoFair point! I am talking about when people receive Outlook emails or Word docs that contain em-dashes, then assume it came from ChatGPT. You are right: If you are typing "plain text in a box" on the Reddit website, the incidence of em-dashes should be incredibly low, unless the sub-Reddit is something about English grammar. Follow-up question: Do any mobile phone IMEs (input method editors) auto-magically convert double dashes into em-dashes? If yes, then that might be a non-ChatGPT source of em-dashes.
- kurkku 1y agoI use the en-dash (Alt+0150) instead of the em. The en-dash and the em-dash are interchangeable in Finnish. The shorter form has more "inoffensive" look-and-feel and maybe that's why it's used more often here. Now that I think of it, I don't seem to remember the alt code of the em-dash...
- latexr 1y ago> The en-dash and the em-dash are interchangeable in Finnish. But not in English, where the en-dash is used to denote ranges.
- d1sxeyes 1y agoI wonder whether ChatGPT and the like use more en dashes in Finnish, and whether this is seen as a sign that someone is using an LLM? In casual English, both em and en dashes are typically typed as a hyphen because this is what’s available readily on the keyboard. Do you have en dashes on a Finnish keyboard?
- latexr 1y ago> Do you have en dashes on a Finnish keyboard? Unlikely. But Apple’s operating systems by default change characters to their correct typographic counterparts automatically. Personally, I type them myself: my muscle memory knows exactly which keys to press for — – “” ‘’ and more.
- dragonwriter 1y agoThe main uses of the em-dash (set closed as separators of parts of sentences, with different semantics when single or paired) can be substituted in English with an en-dash set open. This is not ambiguous with the use of en-dash set closed for ranges, because of spacing. There are a few less common uses that an en-dash doesn’t substitute for, though.
- Grimblewald 1y agoIts about the actual character - if it's a minus sign, easily accessible and not frequntly autocorrected to a true em dash - then its likely human. I'ts when it's the unicode character for an em dash that i start going "hmm"
- layer8 1y agoUs habitual users of em dashes have no trouble typing them, and don’t think that emulating it with hyphen-minus is adequate. The latter, by the way, is also different typographically from an actual minus sign.
- sprobertson 1y agoThe em dash is also pretty accessible on my keyboard—just option+shift+dash
- dragonwriter 1y agoMobile keyboards often make the em-dash (and en-dash) easily accessible. Software that does typographic substitutions including contextual substitutions with the em-dash is common (Word does it, there are browser extensions that do it, etc.), on many platforms it is fairly trivial to program your keyboard to make any Unicode symbol readily accessible.
- wolpoli 1y agoMicrosoft word also auto inserts em-dashes through.
- whatnow37373 1y agoA remarkable insight—often associated with individuals of above-average cognitive capabilities. While the use of the em-dash has recently been associated with AI you might offend real people using it organically—often writers and literary critics. To conclude it’s best to be hesitant and, for now, refrain from judging prematurely. Would you like me to elaborate on this issue or do you want to discuss some related topic?
- caseyy 1y agoI think it started here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQacCB9tDaw&t=601s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQacCB9tDaw&t=601s. The extra-exaggerated fawny intonation is especially off-putting, but the lines themselves aren't much better.
- Cthulhu_ 1y agoUuuurgghh, this is very much offputting... however it's very much in line of American culture or at least American consumer corporate whatsits. I've been in online calls with American representatives of companies and they have the same emphatic, overly friendly and enthusiastic mannerisms too. I mean if that's genuine then great but it's so uncanny to me that I can't take it at face value. I get the same with local sales and management types, they seem to have a forced/fake personality. Or maybe I'm just being cynical.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Fade_Dance 1y ago>The same emphatic, overly friendly and enthusiastic mannerisms too. That's just a feature of American culture, or at least some regions of America. Ex: I spent a weekend with my Turkish friend who has lived in the Midwest for 5 years and she definitely has absorbed that aspect of the culture (AMAZING!!), and currently has a bit of a culture shock moving to DC. And it works in reverse too where NYC people think that way of presenting yourself is completely ridiculous. That said, it's absolutely performative when it comes to business and for better or worse is fairly standardized that way. Not much unlike how Japan does service. There's also a fair amount of unbelievably trash service in the US as well (often due to companies that treat their employees badly/underpay), so I feel that most just prefer the glazed facade rather than be "real." Like, a low end restaurant may be full of that stuff but your high end dinner will have more "normal" conversation and it would be very weird to have that sort of talk in such an environment. But then there's the American corporate cult people who take it all 100% seriously. I think that most would agree those people are a joke, but they are good at feeding egos and being yes-people (lots of egomaniacs to feed in corporate America), and these people are often quite good at using the facade as a shield to further their own motives, so unfortunately the weird American corporate cult persists. But you were probably just talking to a midwesterner ;)