4 ms·
> They will EXPLORE collaborating on ACCELERATING development. Compared to "FSD this year", every year for the past five years, I honestly find the approach pr
by lxgr 2y ago
> They will EXPLORE collaborating on ACCELERATING development.
Compared to "FSD this year", every year for the past five years, I honestly find the approach pretty refreshing.
- bagels 2y agoThis is at the other extreme end though. They could do nothing and call the agreement to explore satisfied. Would rather they wait till they've removed at least three of the hedging words.
- slt2021 2y agothis is just the opposite extreme of "FSD this year"
- aantix 2y agoExcept there’s FSD videos everywhere on X with every minor release, demonstrating the progress.
- acdha 2y agoYes, that’s called marketing. Believe it when they do what Mercedes does and accept liability rather than trying to shirk it.
- aantix 2y agoIf marketing is a 20 min video demonstrating both progress and regressions for each minor rev, then I’ll take more of that.
- brenns10 2y agoI'll believe it when they accept liability for the actions of their autonomous vehicles. Videos mean nothing.
- iknowstuff 2y agoYou fell for Mercedes’ marketing so that’s hilariously ironic
- acdha 2y agoI’m sure that sounded more clever in your head but an actual legal agreement is more than marketing.
- slg 2y agoNo, they really are no different. A legal guarantee doesn't actually mean the car is safe, it means they will pay for it when the safety features fail. Those fees paid out can just be considered a marketing expense to make the car appear safer.
- kadushka 2y agoit means they will pay for it when the safety features fail Tesla will not - it will blame the human driver for not paying attention. That's the difference.
- slg 2y agoThis is misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not arguing for the safety of Tesla's system. I'm saying that judging the safety based off of corporate marketing decisions is a mistake and putting a guarantee on a product is a marketing decision.
- phs318u 2y agoEven if this originated as a marketing thought bubble, there's no way that such a decision could've been made without direct approval from the executive (including the CEO), and only after taking advice from their general counsel and consulting with the board. The potential reputational damage is too immense for such a decision to be made by "marketing" alone. What you're describing has happened before and the courts awarded massive punitive damages against the motor company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimshaw_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimshaw_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
- xnx 2y agoIf progress is noticable in a 20 minute video, Tesla has a long way to go.
- spiderice 2y agoAs do Waymo and Toyota
- adrr 2y agoProgress would be get certified for self driving. For comparison, Mercedes, BMW, Honda etc have L3 cars on the market. Mercedes just got approved full highway speeds in EU and working on L4 certification.
- gonzobonzo 2y agoI just checked out Mercedes, and it appears to be geofenced with a lot of restrictions[1]: > DRIVE PILOT can be activated in heavy traffic jams at a speed of 40 MPH or less on a pre-defined freeway network approved by Mercedes-Benz. DRIVE PILOT operates in daytime lighting conditions when inclement weather is not present and in areas where there is not a construction zone. Please refer to the Operator’s Manual for a full list of conditions required for DRIVE PILOT. Only on select freeways and only under 40 mph (and only during daytime with good weather conditions) sounds like it wouldn't be particularly useful. Still, the tech is cool, and moving in the right direction. It's just always hard to really tell the state of things without doing some digging, because there's a ton of misinformation that gets thrown about whenever this topic comes up. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#2 https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#2
- adrr 2y agoThat’s what the government allows them to do. They got approved for freeway speeds in EU and are trying to get approved in CA. You need to prove that the car is safer than a human driver.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoThey edit their videos to remove the mistakes. It's all a lie if it only works 90% of the time and you don't know when it's going to fail after being lulled into inattention.
- aantix 2y agoThey constantly highlight regressions.
- sofixa 2y agoWaymo made a very good point about this, fundamentally that's the problem with a progressive rollout - drivers will stop paying attention when the software is "good enough", and the result will probably be crashes. So for them, it was all or nothing - either it fully drives itself, or it's not worth deploying.
- ehsankia 2y agoThere's now a thing called "FSD", yes. But it's not FSD as in Full Self-Driving, as in L4. It's still an L3, the driver still needs to be at the wheel and paying attention. "Full Self Driving" implies L4. What Waymo has, with no one at the wheel, is L4.
- mynameisvlad 2y agoFSD is Level 2. The driver must, at all times, be supervising the car. L3 implies that the car, in exceptionally ideal and limited circumstances, takes over full control unsupervised. Even if you were to take Mobileye's definitions, it would still be equivalent to other companies at best (hands off, eyes on).
- vachina 2y agoFSD is something you can BUY and USE right now. Toyota is writing an MoU. They’re not the same.
- proudestmonkey 2y agoWaymo is something that actually drives itself and you can hail right now. FSD is not actually “full self-driving”.
- DerekL 2y agoTesla doesn't even call it that, there's “(Supervised)” after that. That's like calling it “Full Self-Driving (Not!)”.
- adrr 2y agoFSD can’t self drive on any street though. Its just L2 like cruise control and lane centering.
- LanceJones 2y agoI use it every day on every street in Vancouver. Where do you come up with your information?
- adrr 2y agoYou’re driving. Why you can’t watch a movie like you can on a Mercedes L3 car.
- tuckerman 2y agoThe ODD for drive pilot is so limited, I don’t think it’s really comparable. I have very little faith that their approach will scale to anything more than a traffic jam pilot gimmick. It’s fair to argue that FSD is limited as well but I believe their approach is much more scalable.
- beambot 2y ago5 years...? I bought mine with FSD in 2018, and that was years after it was "right around the corner." Worst Kickstarter of all time... Though I do like the car itself.
- ffsm8 2y agoYeah, FSD was promised with the release of the first model S, 2012 - to be ready by "next year" As such, it's been roughly 12 years just around the corner for Tesla and Musk enthusiasts. To be more specific: Musk explicitly said in that marketing event that buying anything other the Tesla wouldn't make economic sense, as they'll earn their own price back as self driving Taxis within the following two years. Still blows my mind that people believed him anything as these kinds of unrealistic promises were at the heart of every event since the start. Believing someone with promises like that is - from my perspective - begging to get scammed. From that point of view, people should be glad the delivered cars were decent. Most purchases with outlandish promises end with merchandise that is borderline unusable.
- esalman 2y ago> Compared to "FSD this year", every year for the past five years, I honestly find the approach pretty refreshing. As an 11 years Toyota driver I agree.
- RandallBrown 2y agoDoesn't Waymo already have FSD?