3 ms·

Tesla is going nowhere without LiDAR.

porphyra 2y ago
O3 can now play geoguessr better than master level human players. It can also beat master level Codeforces competitive programmers. I wouldn't discount the ability of AI to make sense of images far better than humans possibly could, all the while beating them at logical thinking, especially in a restricted domain like driving.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  It also has the help of being able to do web searches and when o3 fails, it doesn’t kill people.
- smt88 2y ago
  AI can't make cameras see in the dark. LIDAR produces light, so it doesn't matter if there isn't enough of it in a particular environment.
  - porphyra 2y ago
    headlights can make cameras see in the dark
    - smt88 2y ago
      Left and right of the car? What about behind it? Waymo has 360-degree LIDAR and, not coincidentally, is the state of the art.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  AI isn’t magic. If there isn’t enough information in the inputs, you can’t expect reliable results. It’s the same principle in all of software: garbage in, garbage out. If there simply isn’t enough visual information, vision-only will fail. https://youtu.be/IQJL3htsDyQ https://youtu.be/IQJL3htsDyQ
  - porphyra 2y ago
    This Mark Rober video has been debunked several times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhIsGFL6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhIsGFL6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cxTO8g47_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cxTO8g47_k
    - sorcerer-mar 2y ago
      That is not a debunking... That's someone running a similar experiment and getting a different result. That would debunk the claim that Teslas can never detect a painted wall. It does not debunk the claim that Teslas will sometimes fail to detect a painted wall. And in a safety-critical system, the distinction is not mere pedantry.
      - porphyra 2y ago
        I mean he didn't even use FSD.
  - waterhouse 2y ago
    Theoretically, if there's not enough visual information for AI drivers, then there's not enough visual information for human drivers, and that's a problem with the road. (Which, to be sure, occasionally there are roads like this: e.g. merging onto a higher-speed thoroughfare from a lower level, with a very short distance between "where you're in a position to see the merging traffic (and not that much of it)" and "where the roads have fully merged (and there's no shoulder)".)
DecentShoes 2y ago
I strongly disagree. Go look at the videos of the current iteration of FSD.
- sorcerer-mar 2y ago
  Yes, then read this article: https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-fsd-is-biased-towards-influencers-and-elon-musk-1851584142/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-fsd-is-biased-towards-influe...
- cryptoegorophy 2y ago
  Go and actually test drive one and let it FSD you around. Videos don’t do justice. There is always MKBHD kind of biased videos.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Spinning lidar is not a panacea.

O3 can now play geoguessr better than master level human players. It can also beat master level Codeforces competitive programmers. I wouldn't discount the ability of AI to make sense of images far better than humans possibly could, all the while beating them at logical thinking, especially in a restricted domain like driving.

scarface_74 2y ago
It also has the help of being able to do web searches and when o3 fails, it doesn’t kill people.
smt88 2y ago
AI can't make cameras see in the dark. LIDAR produces light, so it doesn't matter if there isn't enough of it in a particular environment.
- porphyra 2y ago
  headlights can make cameras see in the dark
  - smt88 2y ago
    Left and right of the car? What about behind it? Waymo has 360-degree LIDAR and, not coincidentally, is the state of the art.
janalsncm 2y ago
AI isn’t magic. If there isn’t enough information in the inputs, you can’t expect reliable results. It’s the same principle in all of software: garbage in, garbage out. If there simply isn’t enough visual information, vision-only will fail. https://youtu.be/IQJL3htsDyQ https://youtu.be/IQJL3htsDyQ
- porphyra 2y ago
  This Mark Rober video has been debunked several times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhIsGFL6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhIsGFL6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cxTO8g47_k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cxTO8g47_k
  - sorcerer-mar 2y ago
    That is not a debunking... That's someone running a similar experiment and getting a different result. That would debunk the claim that Teslas can never detect a painted wall. It does not debunk the claim that Teslas will sometimes fail to detect a painted wall. And in a safety-critical system, the distinction is not mere pedantry.
    - porphyra 2y ago
      I mean he didn't even use FSD.
- waterhouse 2y ago
  Theoretically, if there's not enough visual information for AI drivers, then there's not enough visual information for human drivers, and that's a problem with the road. (Which, to be sure, occasionally there are roads like this: e.g. merging onto a higher-speed thoroughfare from a lower level, with a very short distance between "where you're in a position to see the merging traffic (and not that much of it)" and "where the roads have fully merged (and there's no shoulder)".)

DecentShoes 2y ago

I strongly disagree. Go look at the videos of the current iteration of FSD.

sorcerer-mar 2y ago
Yes, then read this article: https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-fsd-is-biased-towards-influencers-and-elon-musk-1851584142/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-fsd-is-biased-towards-influe...
cryptoegorophy 2y ago
Go and actually test drive one and let it FSD you around. Videos don’t do justice. There is always MKBHD kind of biased videos.

mensetmanusman 2y ago

Spinning lidar is not a panacea.