3 ms·

What is their beef with full-EV? First it was hydrogen fuel cells and now limitation to hybrid. Seems odd at best.

sidibe 1y ago
I think they've just never liked the range. They're waiting for solid state batteries to work at that scale
ern 1y ago
I suspect it's that they build excellent ICE vehicles, and were quick to go to hybrids but missed the rise of EVs. Everything we're seeing is a rearguard action to protect their ICE business.
- ajmurmann 1y ago
  Funny enough they produced an electric Rav 4 as far back as 1997! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
makeitdouble 1y ago
Not mature enough to Toyota's taste, probably. Hydrogen fuel cell is more about diversification, and it is fully backed by the Japan gov so ROI would be through the roof even if it doesn't "win". Also many countries aren't producing enough electricity (cough Japan and Germanycough) so EVs getting popular _at scale_ isn't going to happen tomorrow either.
- slt2021 1y ago
  cannot believe that Japan finds its better to depend on oil from Middle East and import gasoline instead of building one more nuclear plant
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    Having a nuclear disaster only decade ago with a flurry of other plants that couldn't pass the safety test when re-checked creates a pretty tough situation. Right now there's a plant that is stopped by the gov from getting back into production for safety issues, with the elec company trying to appeal for the nth time, and it sure doesn't help the overall image. "This time it will be fine" is kinda hard to stomach for the impacted public to be honest.
    - slt2021 1y ago
      They have no other sustainable energy sources a d frankly I trust japanese engineering minds they can fix their nuclear designs
      - makeitdouble 1y ago
        Japanese engineering at it's core is grit and resilience (”fall down seven times, stand up eight”）. Japan's architecture prowess comes from waves and waves of catastrophes they've overcome and rebuilt upon. For Japan to be that good at nuclear, there first needs to be a way to gracefully fail and retry, instead of making whole regions unhabitable for a century. We're clearly not there yet.
      - ajmurmann 1y ago
        It's always been surprising to me that they don't have more geothermal power generation. Seems liked they should be well-positioned for that.
        makeitdouble 1y ago
        TBF Geothermal sounds a lot more complex on the economical side than other renewable sources. Japan probably has the technology to deal with many of the downsides (additional sysmic risk, pollution, volcanic activity straight destroying the installation etc.) but it might not have the initial money nor a decent enough ROI to maintain the system.
ProjectArcturis 1y ago
It's more expensive for a worse consumer experience.
- spiderice 1y ago
  Even if that is true now, it seems like the days of that continuing to be true are numbered. Toyota is going to have to accept the inevitable eventually. And, as someone who likes Toyota, I hope they don't wait until it's too late to catch up.

I think they've just never liked the range. They're waiting for solid state batteries to work at that scale

ern 1y ago

I suspect it's that they build excellent ICE vehicles, and were quick to go to hybrids but missed the rise of EVs. Everything we're seeing is a rearguard action to protect their ICE business.

ajmurmann 1y ago
Funny enough they produced an electric Rav 4 as far back as 1997! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

makeitdouble 1y ago

Not mature enough to Toyota's taste, probably. Hydrogen fuel cell is more about diversification, and it is fully backed by the Japan gov so ROI would be through the roof even if it doesn't "win". Also many countries aren't producing enough electricity (cough Japan and Germanycough) so EVs getting popular _at scale_ isn't going to happen tomorrow either.

slt2021 1y ago
cannot believe that Japan finds its better to depend on oil from Middle East and import gasoline instead of building one more nuclear plant
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  Having a nuclear disaster only decade ago with a flurry of other plants that couldn't pass the safety test when re-checked creates a pretty tough situation. Right now there's a plant that is stopped by the gov from getting back into production for safety issues, with the elec company trying to appeal for the nth time, and it sure doesn't help the overall image. "This time it will be fine" is kinda hard to stomach for the impacted public to be honest.
  - slt2021 1y ago
    They have no other sustainable energy sources a d frankly I trust japanese engineering minds they can fix their nuclear designs
    - makeitdouble 1y ago
      Japanese engineering at it's core is grit and resilience (”fall down seven times, stand up eight”）. Japan's architecture prowess comes from waves and waves of catastrophes they've overcome and rebuilt upon. For Japan to be that good at nuclear, there first needs to be a way to gracefully fail and retry, instead of making whole regions unhabitable for a century. We're clearly not there yet.
    - ajmurmann 1y ago
      It's always been surprising to me that they don't have more geothermal power generation. Seems liked they should be well-positioned for that.
      - makeitdouble 1y ago
        TBF Geothermal sounds a lot more complex on the economical side than other renewable sources. Japan probably has the technology to deal with many of the downsides (additional sysmic risk, pollution, volcanic activity straight destroying the installation etc.) but it might not have the initial money nor a decent enough ROI to maintain the system.

ProjectArcturis 1y ago

It's more expensive for a worse consumer experience.

spiderice 1y ago
Even if that is true now, it seems like the days of that continuing to be true are numbered. Toyota is going to have to accept the inevitable eventually. And, as someone who likes Toyota, I hope they don't wait until it's too late to catch up.