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In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended E

In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended Elon, who then went to support Trump with all sorts of tactics including buying Twitter to amplify his voice.

lenerdenator 1y ago
> In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Yeah, how dare they do the things that make reactionaries be... reactionary.
- porphyra 1y ago
  The democrats also tried to pass legislation in 2021 that excludes Tesla from an EV credit due to it being not built by unions, even though Tesla has by far the largest share of electric vehicles and is the most productive and innovative company in this sector.
  - lenerdenator 1y ago
    Yeah we wouldn't want the people making the product having representation and getting a larger share of the take on the sale of said product.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - rat87 1y ago
    Yeah because they were anti union. It wasn't because of any personal dislike of Elon. And it was inevitable that the more mainstream automakers would sell more evs then Tesla as EVs became a larger and larger share of cars sold. Granted it's taking longer than expected but Tesla is no longer the majority even if it's overall has a large plurality but falling pretty fast
    - lenerdenator 1y ago
      For guys like that, being pro-union is personal dislike. They see themselves as the smartest, strongest, most clever people in history. They don't need some group moderating their plans, much less one made of people they hired. Any suggestion to the contrary is a strike against the natural order that they perceive reality through.
- guywithahat 1y ago
  I think there was a lot of pressure on Tesla/Elon to donate and participate more, and higher ups turned pretty hard on him when he didn't. They were pulling the tax credit from Tesla while holding EV summits with everyone but him. I don't think he was being reactionary, I think his hand was forced. Further he really isn't a conservative. He's still running around on X talking about how we need to double the number of H1-B's and other social-left causes. Cutting spending through DOGE is something every Republican has talked about for decades, and I don't think it's a major flip for him to want to do that.
  - iainmerrick 1y ago
    I don't think H1-Bs are really a "social-left cause". They're something that big tech companies like because they get to cherry-pick skilled workers and keep them locked in. On the main political spectrum, I think they're pretty centrist. The right dislikes them because they're immigration in disguise, the left dislikes them because they're indentured servitude in disguise.
  - lenerdenator 1y ago
    He's incredibly conservative. He very much likes the idea of Neo-feudalism. You have a class that owns everything (of which he's the prime example right now) and then you have a class that labors to rent things from people like him. Those who don't - or can't - play that game are simply not fit to survive. It's a school of thought so old that we barely recognize it anymore, but that's what he wants to return to. Lots of tech bros are into it.
    - guywithahat 1y ago
      With all due respect, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about
ivape 1y ago
Is Citizen's United the only thing that allowed one person to donate $150 million? This is the obvious flaw. We would need a RICO type framework to identify the basket of vectors that one person/organization can use to funnel money to a candidate. This is a bipartisan issue but I don't know how we can surface the narrative so more people can talk about it.
- twoodfin 1y ago
  Citizens United has no impact on what an individual can do with his money. It’s purely about corporate spending by entities like IBM, the Sierra Club, or the New York Times Company.
  - TylerE 1y ago
    It does because a rich individual can just start a proxy corp and do whatever.
    - twoodfin 1y ago
      They don’t need to because a rich individual already can use their money for whatever speech they like.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  I think you are confusing Citizens United v FEC (2010) with Buckley v. Valeo (1976). (CU is largely “corporations are people applies in the application of Buckley”.) Though, also, neither decision impacts limitations on donations to candidates, both address limitations on expenditures (in Buckley’s case by non-candidate persons independent of campaigns, by candidates from personal funds, and by candidates in aggregate; CU mostly deals with the first of those where the legal person is a corporation and not a natural person.)
- porphyra 1y ago
  I agree that allowing elections to be influenced by spending money was a mistake. Campaign spending is way out of control and it reduces our leaders and politicians into desperately begging for donations.
EricDeb 1y ago
No one private citizen should be able to hold that much influence

lenerdenator 1y ago

> In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Yeah, how dare they do the things that make reactionaries be... reactionary.

porphyra 1y ago
The democrats also tried to pass legislation in 2021 that excludes Tesla from an EV credit due to it being not built by unions, even though Tesla has by far the largest share of electric vehicles and is the most productive and innovative company in this sector.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  Yeah we wouldn't want the people making the product having representation and getting a larger share of the take on the sale of said product.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- rat87 1y ago
  Yeah because they were anti union. It wasn't because of any personal dislike of Elon. And it was inevitable that the more mainstream automakers would sell more evs then Tesla as EVs became a larger and larger share of cars sold. Granted it's taking longer than expected but Tesla is no longer the majority even if it's overall has a large plurality but falling pretty fast
  - lenerdenator 1y ago
    For guys like that, being pro-union is personal dislike. They see themselves as the smartest, strongest, most clever people in history. They don't need some group moderating their plans, much less one made of people they hired. Any suggestion to the contrary is a strike against the natural order that they perceive reality through.
guywithahat 1y ago
I think there was a lot of pressure on Tesla/Elon to donate and participate more, and higher ups turned pretty hard on him when he didn't. They were pulling the tax credit from Tesla while holding EV summits with everyone but him. I don't think he was being reactionary, I think his hand was forced. Further he really isn't a conservative. He's still running around on X talking about how we need to double the number of H1-B's and other social-left causes. Cutting spending through DOGE is something every Republican has talked about for decades, and I don't think it's a major flip for him to want to do that.
- iainmerrick 1y ago
  I don't think H1-Bs are really a "social-left cause". They're something that big tech companies like because they get to cherry-pick skilled workers and keep them locked in. On the main political spectrum, I think they're pretty centrist. The right dislikes them because they're immigration in disguise, the left dislikes them because they're indentured servitude in disguise.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  He's incredibly conservative. He very much likes the idea of Neo-feudalism. You have a class that owns everything (of which he's the prime example right now) and then you have a class that labors to rent things from people like him. Those who don't - or can't - play that game are simply not fit to survive. It's a school of thought so old that we barely recognize it anymore, but that's what he wants to return to. Lots of tech bros are into it.
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    With all due respect, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about

ivape 1y ago

Is Citizen's United the only thing that allowed one person to donate $150 million? This is the obvious flaw. We would need a RICO type framework to identify the basket of vectors that one person/organization can use to funnel money to a candidate. This is a bipartisan issue but I don't know how we can surface the narrative so more people can talk about it.

twoodfin 1y ago
Citizens United has no impact on what an individual can do with his money. It’s purely about corporate spending by entities like IBM, the Sierra Club, or the New York Times Company.
- TylerE 1y ago
  It does because a rich individual can just start a proxy corp and do whatever.
  - twoodfin 1y ago
    They don’t need to because a rich individual already can use their money for whatever speech they like.
dragonwriter 1y ago
I think you are confusing Citizens United v FEC (2010) with Buckley v. Valeo (1976). (CU is largely “corporations are people applies in the application of Buckley”.) Though, also, neither decision impacts limitations on donations to candidates, both address limitations on expenditures (in Buckley’s case by non-candidate persons independent of campaigns, by candidates from personal funds, and by candidates in aggregate; CU mostly deals with the first of those where the legal person is a corporation and not a natural person.)
porphyra 1y ago
I agree that allowing elections to be influenced by spending money was a mistake. Campaign spending is way out of control and it reduces our leaders and politicians into desperately begging for donations.

EricDeb 1y ago

No one private citizen should be able to hold that much influence