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- Population is leveling off and dropping in some countries, This is a problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufmu1WD2TSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufmu

- Population is leveling off and dropping in some countries, This is a problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufmu1WD2TSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufmu1WD2TSk - AI is rapidly getting better. Not clear how good it gets, but if everything you do for money goes in and out over a wire, you're in trouble. Or, everything gets so abundant that we can actually have high UBI This reminds me if why I disliked to movie Elysium. They had a robots that effectively gave free perfect medical care. I didn't buy the premise of the movie that only that rich would be able to use them. Given they were robots, governments, hospitals, could and would make them readily available since ultimately it would massively lower their medical costs.

WorldPeas 2y ago
you assume their compotence and forethought. Such things cannot be taken for granted.
beeflet 2y ago
I think elysium isn't an effective sci-fi in the sense that it discusses the effect of technology on mankind. It is just a metaphor for the US/Mexico border. The only takeaway I got from the movie is that the robots look cool, it's the same robot design from chappie. Both half-baked scifi movies, but I would like to imagine they both exist in the same world.
antasvara 2y ago
>I didn't buy the premise of the movie that only that rich would be able to use them. Given they were robots, governments, hospitals, could and would make them readily available since ultimately it would massively lower their medical costs. Given Big Pharma's current ability to get lots and lots of money for vital medicine, I'm not optimistic they'd price a theoretical medical machine low enough for a government to afford. Plus, if overpopulation is a concern, a wealthy person wouldn't necessarily want the machine to get into the hands of everyone. Given that the creator of this machine would become very wealthy, the incentives would probably lean towards offering it to a select group.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  Nearly every edifice of modern society relies on the tacit consent of other people. Pharma needs patent laws and a whole market economy to function. "One wealthy person controls everyone with robots" basically ends up with one wealthy person alone with some robots.
  - antasvara 2y ago
    >Pharma needs patent laws and a whole market economy to function. I agree in general with this sentiment. However, I think that "medical robot that can cure anything" isn't something you'd patent (as you'd have to make some of the details public). I imagine you'd keep it as a trade secret and only license the machine for use by your own technicians or something along those lines. I do think that the key assumptions for this scenario are that companies become as powerful (if not more powerful) than countries, and the incentives change such that withholding medical care is beneficial to the wealthy. Do I think this is the most likely outcome? No. But I think that current countries with partially starving populations are a "worst-case" scenario for what a society dealing with scarcity looks like.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Big pharma usually only gets big money until the patents run out. Today's expensive treatment is relatively cheap a generation from now. I realize that sometimes there are situations where this doesn't hold.
Animats 2y ago
> Or, everything gets so abundant that we can actually have high UBI Now, that's not as clear. Reaching the point that all the essential tasks to keep society going can be done cost-effectively by robots is quite a ways off.

WorldPeas 2y ago

you assume their compotence and forethought. Such things cannot be taken for granted.

beeflet 2y ago

I think elysium isn't an effective sci-fi in the sense that it discusses the effect of technology on mankind. It is just a metaphor for the US/Mexico border. The only takeaway I got from the movie is that the robots look cool, it's the same robot design from chappie. Both half-baked scifi movies, but I would like to imagine they both exist in the same world.

antasvara 2y ago

>I didn't buy the premise of the movie that only that rich would be able to use them. Given they were robots, governments, hospitals, could and would make them readily available since ultimately it would massively lower their medical costs. Given Big Pharma's current ability to get lots and lots of money for vital medicine, I'm not optimistic they'd price a theoretical medical machine low enough for a government to afford. Plus, if overpopulation is a concern, a wealthy person wouldn't necessarily want the machine to get into the hands of everyone. Given that the creator of this machine would become very wealthy, the incentives would probably lean towards offering it to a select group.

stickfigure 2y ago
Nearly every edifice of modern society relies on the tacit consent of other people. Pharma needs patent laws and a whole market economy to function. "One wealthy person controls everyone with robots" basically ends up with one wealthy person alone with some robots.
- antasvara 2y ago
  >Pharma needs patent laws and a whole market economy to function. I agree in general with this sentiment. However, I think that "medical robot that can cure anything" isn't something you'd patent (as you'd have to make some of the details public). I imagine you'd keep it as a trade secret and only license the machine for use by your own technicians or something along those lines. I do think that the key assumptions for this scenario are that companies become as powerful (if not more powerful) than countries, and the incentives change such that withholding medical care is beneficial to the wealthy. Do I think this is the most likely outcome? No. But I think that current countries with partially starving populations are a "worst-case" scenario for what a society dealing with scarcity looks like.
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
Big pharma usually only gets big money until the patents run out. Today's expensive treatment is relatively cheap a generation from now. I realize that sometimes there are situations where this doesn't hold.

Animats 2y ago

> Or, everything gets so abundant that we can actually have high UBI Now, that's not as clear. Reaching the point that all the essential tasks to keep society going can be done cost-effectively by robots is quite a ways off.