5 ms·

Except in practise, systemd works fantastically and you're all worried about nothing. Systemd also does much more than that and handles stuff like daemonizatio

Except in practise, systemd works fantastically and you're all worried about nothing. Systemd also does much more than that and handles stuff like daemonization and socket creation, so that these things don't need to be re-implemented in every program that requires them. Bash scripts are overly verbose, repetitive, and awkward in comparison to unit files. And you can always use sysvinit if you still aren't convinced, just Arch will be optimised for systemd.

caf 14y ago
...except that those things do still need to be re-implemented in every program that requires them, since most POSIXy programs are portable to more than just systems using systemd.
- yew 14y ago
  This being my primary problem with the current upheaval in Linux system organization. Its instigators have mostly made it clear that they consider everything not Linux (or possibly preferably not their favorite flavor thereof) to be obsolete - throwing portability out the window. Frankly, it's getting old.
  - bkor 14y ago
    I fail to see the problem. Either something is portable, or something is not. It is basically up to the developer. If not being portable means way less time spent on development, then some people might choose that. Good for them.
    - pjmlp 14y ago
      Yeah, but then when developers in other OS besides GNU/Linux take the same attitude, they get bashed to death for not caring about portable software.
      - gillianseed 14y ago
        do they? do you have any examples?
        dredmorbius 14y ago
        Microsoft. Apple. IBM. DEC. Oh, wait, that didn't work out so well, now did it?
  - thedeuce 14y ago
    you're getting old.
dredmorbius 14y ago
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=708572 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=708572 Software has bugs. Core, deep systems software has subtle bugs, or hidden bugs, or emergent bugs, or any of a whole host of things. If arch and fedora want to ride this tiger, I guess they can. Again: init is really, really stable stuff. Add in hooks to journald, d-bus, and the equivalent of an xinetd replacement/upgrade. Too much change. And a Really Bad Attitude from the developer. My experience (a few decades of beating around on various tech at various scales) says this doesn't bode well.

caf 14y ago

...except that those things do still need to be re-implemented in every program that requires them, since most POSIXy programs are portable to more than just systems using systemd.

yew 14y ago
This being my primary problem with the current upheaval in Linux system organization. Its instigators have mostly made it clear that they consider everything not Linux (or possibly preferably not their favorite flavor thereof) to be obsolete - throwing portability out the window. Frankly, it's getting old.
- bkor 14y ago
  I fail to see the problem. Either something is portable, or something is not. It is basically up to the developer. If not being portable means way less time spent on development, then some people might choose that. Good for them.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    Yeah, but then when developers in other OS besides GNU/Linux take the same attitude, they get bashed to death for not caring about portable software.
    - gillianseed 14y ago
      do they? do you have any examples?
      - dredmorbius 14y ago
        Microsoft. Apple. IBM. DEC. Oh, wait, that didn't work out so well, now did it?
- thedeuce 14y ago
  you're getting old.

dredmorbius 14y ago

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=708572 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=708572 Software has bugs. Core, deep systems software has subtle bugs, or hidden bugs, or emergent bugs, or any of a whole host of things. If arch and fedora want to ride this tiger, I guess they can. Again: init is really, really stable stuff. Add in hooks to journald, d-bus, and the equivalent of an xinetd replacement/upgrade. Too much change. And a Really Bad Attitude from the developer. My experience (a few decades of beating around on various tech at various scales) says this doesn't bode well.