3 ms·

You don't say what kind of software and for whom. One thing I suggest, if you haven't done it, is working on software, but for companies that don't ship softwar

by mac3n 1y ago

You don't say what kind of software and for whom. One thing I suggest, if you haven't done it, is working on software, but for companies that don't ship software or software services. Stay away from the big tech companies, look for something small and somewhat local. You don't want to be the FAANG "cattle, not pets" One of the most enjoyable jobs I had was working for a small company that made [digital] audio equipment (before that was possible on a PC) - we had sound systems in every office and a small recording studio in the basement. Most of the engineers were also musicians. We had software people, analog people, and music and radio production people.

giantg2 1y ago
I think small is the better description vs non-software company. Many non-software companies, especially larger ones, seem to treat devs poorly or have poor environment. After all, in those companies IT is a cost and not a revenue generator.
- mac3n 1y ago
  Maybe this is the difference between companies that use computers and see IT support as a cost (almost everyone), vs. companies that ship embedded software which is part of the product. My experience above was with embedded software. Of course that was before everyone just threw in a wifi interface and a web server.
andyjohnson0 1y ago
> One thing I suggest, if you haven't done it, is working on software, but for companies that don't ship software or software services. Stay away from the big tech companies, look for something small and somewhat local. This is good advice. I'm a dev in a manufacturing company (admittedly quite a large one) and the culture here is very different to pure software businesses I've worked in. There are deadlines, but they're realistic. People go home on-time. Little or no fashion-driven development practices and platform churn, mostly just pragmatism and an emphasis on stuff that works. I share a building with proper engineers (mechanical, electrical) as well as other devs and the culture is so refreshing. When you look around, there are lots of businesses like this just quietly getting on with things.
zerr 1y ago
Small B2B software shops are great as well. Part-time also helps. And stay away from companies that have Agile Coaches, SCRUM masters.
theanonymousone 1y ago
Then what to do about this cost center vs profit center thing?
xp84 1y ago
Heartily seconding this. There’s a big world out there in the business of software outside the software business. It’s far from homogenous. I’d also add that the main difference between US and Europe is that here you will take home a lot more money (much higher salary and much lower taxes) and in Europe you’ll have that more relaxed, less intense atmosphere (but the lower salary and high taxes to match). You’re competing directly with, for instance, the Romanian developers some US companies are outsourcing to for cost reasons. In the US you’re expected to meet your own emotional needs by application of money to the problem (for some I assume that’s easier than for others). The happiest people in the American system find ways to do that such as taking ample time off and pursuing their expensive hobbies. (I haven’t worked in Europe but this is what I’ve gathered - salary and tax data is pretty easy to find though so I’m reasonably confident in these modest assertions.)

by mac3n 1y ago

giantg2 1y ago

I think small is the better description vs non-software company. Many non-software companies, especially larger ones, seem to treat devs poorly or have poor environment. After all, in those companies IT is a cost and not a revenue generator.

mac3n 1y ago
Maybe this is the difference between companies that use computers and see IT support as a cost (almost everyone), vs. companies that ship embedded software which is part of the product. My experience above was with embedded software. Of course that was before everyone just threw in a wifi interface and a web server.

andyjohnson0 1y ago

> One thing I suggest, if you haven't done it, is working on software, but for companies that don't ship software or software services. Stay away from the big tech companies, look for something small and somewhat local. This is good advice. I'm a dev in a manufacturing company (admittedly quite a large one) and the culture here is very different to pure software businesses I've worked in. There are deadlines, but they're realistic. People go home on-time. Little or no fashion-driven development practices and platform churn, mostly just pragmatism and an emphasis on stuff that works. I share a building with proper engineers (mechanical, electrical) as well as other devs and the culture is so refreshing. When you look around, there are lots of businesses like this just quietly getting on with things.

zerr 1y ago

Small B2B software shops are great as well. Part-time also helps. And stay away from companies that have Agile Coaches, SCRUM masters.

theanonymousone 1y ago

Then what to do about this cost center vs profit center thing?

xp84 1y ago

Heartily seconding this. There’s a big world out there in the business of software outside the software business. It’s far from homogenous. I’d also add that the main difference between US and Europe is that here you will take home a lot more money (much higher salary and much lower taxes) and in Europe you’ll have that more relaxed, less intense atmosphere (but the lower salary and high taxes to match). You’re competing directly with, for instance, the Romanian developers some US companies are outsourcing to for cost reasons. In the US you’re expected to meet your own emotional needs by application of money to the problem (for some I assume that’s easier than for others). The happiest people in the American system find ways to do that such as taking ample time off and pursuing their expensive hobbies. (I haven’t worked in Europe but this is what I’ve gathered - salary and tax data is pretty easy to find though so I’m reasonably confident in these modest assertions.)