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I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with stuff like this. I'm trying to put together an unrealengine blueprints style graph editor to allow people to design w

I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with stuff like this. I'm trying to put together an unrealengine blueprints style graph editor to allow people to design workflows like this where you start with the user prompt input, which goes to one agent, which makes an initial attempt, and then that conversation history gets passed to another "agent" with a different system prompt telling it to be a harsh critic, but to also give a pass/fail signal, and loop back until the critic judges pass, then send that back to the user as output. Ideally as a little website that can call your own LLM endpoints and save/load/share workflow graphs. Mistral small 3.1 and gemma 3 feel like the first semi-competent models that can be run locally, but that competence is just a seed, and they still need to be guided with a framework that keeps them on track. Try giving it python execution in a loop and tell it to explore the world. It'll start trying to download and read news and stuff.

deleted 1y ago
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globalise83 1y ago
Have you tried n8n? It allows you to build flows like that - you can run the community version in a Docker container within a few minutes and share the configurations for the flows you have built very easily.
- mecsred 1y ago
  _#_ has to be one of the worst word shortening schemes I've ever seen get widespread. It only works with a very small number of long-lived technologies, in which case they basically just get a nickname, "k8s" "i18n". It does not at all work for larger contexts. You're basically making someone solve a crossword (2 across, 10 letters with two filled in) just to parse your sentence.
  - jjj123 1y ago
    I just googled it and it looks like “n8n” is the name of the service. The op wasn’t abbreviating anything so I don’t think it’s the same phenomenon as what you’re describing.
    - lgas 1y ago
      Well, the service is doing the same thing though. The part I don't understand is that I assume n8n is short for "Nation" but literally every single person I've seen talk about it on YouTube (which is quite a lot) say "En Eight En" every time.
      - nemomarx 1y ago
        nation is too short for 8 - maybe navigation?
        pkaye 1y ago
        Looks like n8n is short for nodemation
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Why do we do this to ourselves?
        Y_Y 1y ago
        Techno-flagellation is the only way to atone
        lgas 1y ago
        So the 8 stands for "odematio"? That sounds about right.
    - oppodeldoc 1y ago
      https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n?tab=readme-ov-file#what-does-n8n-mean https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n?tab=readme-ov-file#what-does-n...
  - eddieroger 1y ago
    It's just another form of any other jargon - unknown until you know it, and usually specific to the use case. I see k8s and i18n or a11y and I know exactly what they mean because at some point I learned it and it's part of the world I live in. Searching for stuff is how we learn, not solving crosswords.
    - mecsred 1y ago
      Right, my complaint is that it only works like jargon, where you are just giving something a context-specific nickname. As a word shortening scheme, it's terrible. A world where many projects have names like s11g is a nightmare.
    - wongarsu 1y ago
      I kind of get k8s and can live with i18n (at least it's a long word). But a11y just shouldn't exist. "Oh look, it looks like ally, what a cute play on words". Yeah, but for a dumb joke and 9 saved keystrokes you literally made the word accessibility less accessible. That's exactly the opposite of what accessibility is about
    - psychoslave 1y ago
      No it's not just part of the world and it's fatality we have to live with like gravity. Abbreviation can in rare occasion have a net benefit, but only in very narrow highly unusual context do they bring any general benefit. Most often than not it just obfuscate the message for new comers, making artificial entry barrier higher.
  - globalise83 1y ago
    The app is actually called n8n - https://n8n.io/ https://n8n.io/
- hnuser123456 1y ago
  I had not, but that looks awesome. Microsoft put out something called "agent flows" that also fits this category.[1] I'm working on more of an "at home" version - no "talk to sales" button. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/blog/copilot-studio/introducing-agent-flows-transforming-automation-with-ai-first-workflows/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/blog/copil...
andai 1y ago
I am thinking the same thing! Multiple "personalities", in parallel, or in series. For example, I have approximated, in GPT, some of Gemini's ability to call out nonsense, sloppy thinking, by telling GPT to be mean! (The politeness seems to filter out much that is of great value!) However, the result is not pleasant to read. Gemini solved this in their training, by doing it in two phases... and making the first phase private! ("Thinking.") So I thought, what I need is a two-phase approach, where that "mean" output gets humanized a little bit. (It gets harsh to work in that way for more than short intervals.) As a side note, I think there would be great value in a UI that allows a "group chat" of different LLM personalities. I don't know if such a thing exists, but I haven't seen it yet, although the message object format seems to have been designed with it in mind (e.g. every message has a name, to allow for multiple users and multiple AIs). Even better if it supports multiple providers, since they have different strengths. (It's like getting a second opinion.)
- NitpickLawyer 1y ago
  > As a side note, I think there would be great value in a UI that allows a "group chat" of different LLM personalities. This is the basic idea behind autogen. They also have a web UI now in autogen studio, it's gotten a bit better. You can create "teams" of agents (with different prompts, themes, tools, etc.) and have them discuss / cooperate. I think they even added memory recently. Have a look at it, might be what you need.
- jbm 1y ago
  I disagree. If anything, telling GPT to be blunt seems to downgrade its IQ; it hallucinates more and makes statements without considering priors or context. I jokingly call it Reddit mode.
  - dingnuts 1y ago
    why would that be a joke? there's a ton of Reddit comments in the training data, and the output is of similar quality. LLMs are literally outputting average Reddit comments.
deleted 1y ago
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irthomasthomas 1y ago
I think you can do most of this already with llm-consortium (maybe needs the llm-openrouter plugin with my pr merging) A consortium sends the same prompt to multiple models in parallel and the responses are all sent to one arbiter model which judges the model responses. The arbiter decides if more iterations are required. It can also be forced to iterate more until confidence-threshold or min-iterations. Now, using the pr i made to llm-openrouter, you can save an alias to a model that includes lots of model options. For examples, you can do llm openrouter save -m qwen3 -o online -o temperature 0, system "research prompt" --name qwen-researcher And now, you can build a consortium where one member is an online research specialist. You could make another uses JSON mode for entity extraction, and a third which writes a blind draft. The arbiter would then make use of all that and synthesize a good answer.
- kridsdale1 1y ago
  Any links or names of example implementations of this?
  - irthomasthomas 1y ago
    https://github.com/irthomasthomas/llm-consortium https://github.com/irthomasthomas/llm-consortium also, you aren't limited to cli. When you save a consortium it creates a model. You can then interact with a consortium as if it where a normal model (albeit slower and higher quality). You can then serve your custom models on an openai endpoint and use them with any chat client that supports custom openai endpoints. The default behaviour is to output just the final synthesis, and this should conform to your user prompt. I recently added the ability to continue conversations with a consortium. In this case it only includes your user prompt and final synthesis in the conversation, so it mimics a normal chat, unlike running multiple iterations in the consortium, where full iteration history and arbiter responses are included. UV tool install llm llm install llm-consortium llm install llm-model-gateway llm consortium save qwen-gem-sonnet -m qwen3-32b -n 2 -m sonnet-3.7 -m gemini-2.5-pro --arbiter gemini-2.5-flash --confidence-threshold 95 --max-iterations 3 llm serve qwen-gem-sonnet In this example I used -n 2 on the qwen model since it's so cheap we can include multiple instances of it in a consortium Gemini flash works well as the arbiter for most prompts. However if your prompt has complex formatting requirements, then embedding that within an already complex consortium prompt often confuses it. In that case use gemini-2.5-pro for the arbiter. .

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

globalise83 1y ago

Have you tried n8n? It allows you to build flows like that - you can run the community version in a Docker container within a few minutes and share the configurations for the flows you have built very easily.

mecsred 1y ago
_#_ has to be one of the worst word shortening schemes I've ever seen get widespread. It only works with a very small number of long-lived technologies, in which case they basically just get a nickname, "k8s" "i18n". It does not at all work for larger contexts. You're basically making someone solve a crossword (2 across, 10 letters with two filled in) just to parse your sentence.
- jjj123 1y ago
  I just googled it and it looks like “n8n” is the name of the service. The op wasn’t abbreviating anything so I don’t think it’s the same phenomenon as what you’re describing.
  - lgas 1y ago
    Well, the service is doing the same thing though. The part I don't understand is that I assume n8n is short for "Nation" but literally every single person I've seen talk about it on YouTube (which is quite a lot) say "En Eight En" every time.
    - nemomarx 1y ago
      nation is too short for 8 - maybe navigation?
      - pkaye 1y ago
        Looks like n8n is short for nodemation
        firesteelrain 1y ago
        Why do we do this to ourselves?
        Y_Y 1y ago
        Techno-flagellation is the only way to atone
        lgas 1y ago
        So the 8 stands for "odematio"? That sounds about right.
  - oppodeldoc 1y ago
    https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n?tab=readme-ov-file#what-does-n8n-mean https://github.com/n8n-io/n8n?tab=readme-ov-file#what-does-n...
- eddieroger 1y ago
  It's just another form of any other jargon - unknown until you know it, and usually specific to the use case. I see k8s and i18n or a11y and I know exactly what they mean because at some point I learned it and it's part of the world I live in. Searching for stuff is how we learn, not solving crosswords.
  - mecsred 1y ago
    Right, my complaint is that it only works like jargon, where you are just giving something a context-specific nickname. As a word shortening scheme, it's terrible. A world where many projects have names like s11g is a nightmare.
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    I kind of get k8s and can live with i18n (at least it's a long word). But a11y just shouldn't exist. "Oh look, it looks like ally, what a cute play on words". Yeah, but for a dumb joke and 9 saved keystrokes you literally made the word accessibility less accessible. That's exactly the opposite of what accessibility is about
  - psychoslave 1y ago
    No it's not just part of the world and it's fatality we have to live with like gravity. Abbreviation can in rare occasion have a net benefit, but only in very narrow highly unusual context do they bring any general benefit. Most often than not it just obfuscate the message for new comers, making artificial entry barrier higher.
- globalise83 1y ago
  The app is actually called n8n - https://n8n.io/ https://n8n.io/
hnuser123456 1y ago
I had not, but that looks awesome. Microsoft put out something called "agent flows" that also fits this category.[1] I'm working on more of an "at home" version - no "talk to sales" button. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/blog/copilot-studio/introducing-agent-flows-transforming-automation-with-ai-first-workflows/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-copilot/blog/copil...

andai 1y ago

I am thinking the same thing! Multiple "personalities", in parallel, or in series. For example, I have approximated, in GPT, some of Gemini's ability to call out nonsense, sloppy thinking, by telling GPT to be mean! (The politeness seems to filter out much that is of great value!) However, the result is not pleasant to read. Gemini solved this in their training, by doing it in two phases... and making the first phase private! ("Thinking.") So I thought, what I need is a two-phase approach, where that "mean" output gets humanized a little bit. (It gets harsh to work in that way for more than short intervals.) As a side note, I think there would be great value in a UI that allows a "group chat" of different LLM personalities. I don't know if such a thing exists, but I haven't seen it yet, although the message object format seems to have been designed with it in mind (e.g. every message has a name, to allow for multiple users and multiple AIs). Even better if it supports multiple providers, since they have different strengths. (It's like getting a second opinion.)

NitpickLawyer 1y ago
> As a side note, I think there would be great value in a UI that allows a "group chat" of different LLM personalities. This is the basic idea behind autogen. They also have a web UI now in autogen studio, it's gotten a bit better. You can create "teams" of agents (with different prompts, themes, tools, etc.) and have them discuss / cooperate. I think they even added memory recently. Have a look at it, might be what you need.
jbm 1y ago
I disagree. If anything, telling GPT to be blunt seems to downgrade its IQ; it hallucinates more and makes statements without considering priors or context. I jokingly call it Reddit mode.
- dingnuts 1y ago
  why would that be a joke? there's a ton of Reddit comments in the training data, and the output is of similar quality. LLMs are literally outputting average Reddit comments.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

irthomasthomas 1y ago

I think you can do most of this already with llm-consortium (maybe needs the llm-openrouter plugin with my pr merging) A consortium sends the same prompt to multiple models in parallel and the responses are all sent to one arbiter model which judges the model responses. The arbiter decides if more iterations are required. It can also be forced to iterate more until confidence-threshold or min-iterations. Now, using the pr i made to llm-openrouter, you can save an alias to a model that includes lots of model options. For examples, you can do llm openrouter save -m qwen3 -o online -o temperature 0, system "research prompt" --name qwen-researcher And now, you can build a consortium where one member is an online research specialist. You could make another uses JSON mode for entity extraction, and a third which writes a blind draft. The arbiter would then make use of all that and synthesize a good answer.

kridsdale1 1y ago
Any links or names of example implementations of this?
- irthomasthomas 1y ago
  https://github.com/irthomasthomas/llm-consortium https://github.com/irthomasthomas/llm-consortium also, you aren't limited to cli. When you save a consortium it creates a model. You can then interact with a consortium as if it where a normal model (albeit slower and higher quality). You can then serve your custom models on an openai endpoint and use them with any chat client that supports custom openai endpoints. The default behaviour is to output just the final synthesis, and this should conform to your user prompt. I recently added the ability to continue conversations with a consortium. In this case it only includes your user prompt and final synthesis in the conversation, so it mimics a normal chat, unlike running multiple iterations in the consortium, where full iteration history and arbiter responses are included. UV tool install llm llm install llm-consortium llm install llm-model-gateway llm consortium save qwen-gem-sonnet -m qwen3-32b -n 2 -m sonnet-3.7 -m gemini-2.5-pro --arbiter gemini-2.5-flash --confidence-threshold 95 --max-iterations 3 llm serve qwen-gem-sonnet In this example I used -n 2 on the qwen model since it's so cheap we can include multiple instances of it in a consortium Gemini flash works well as the arbiter for most prompts. However if your prompt has complex formatting requirements, then embedding that within an already complex consortium prompt often confuses it. In that case use gemini-2.5-pro for the arbiter. .