3 ms·

My suspicion is that the use of plastics with food is also the main contributor to the fertility crisis (declining sperm counts, etc) we have. Wouldn't be surp

My suspicion is that the use of plastics with food is also the main contributor to the fertility crisis (declining sperm counts, etc) we have. Wouldn't be surprised that this then also contributes, through sperm quality degradation, to the increase in autism. And it isn't just my suspicion, see links below, but we haven't yet forcefully moved away from plastics around food. If RF Kennedy could do one thing, I would ask him to focus on plastics and food, rather than the more nutty stuff. Side bonus: it may help raise the low fertility rate that Trump and Elon are so concerned about as well. https://cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/reduce-your-risk/myths-and-controversies/should-i-put-plastic-containers-in-the-microwave https://cancer.ca/en/cancer-information/reduce-your-risk/myt... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9134445/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9134445/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35134716/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35134716/

mapt 2y ago
It could easily turn out to be a not very severe problem, like "Use rayon instead of polyester for your clothing" or "No more styrofoam, because styrene monomer offgassing in your lungs"; The issue is that without a lot of dedicated study (probably animal studies into the millions of individual-exposure-years) we wouldn't even know. These things are too ubiquitous in modern life to readily separate them from us with careful non-experimental study design.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Is autism actually on the rise, or is it just more diagnosed thanks to advances in and availability of diagnoses and general awareness in the population? A lot of people that get a fresh autism diagnosis these days recognize the same symptoms in their (grand)parents. Anyway, RFK does seem to focus on food stuffs, by banning certain food dyes (no more lurid froot loops for you (https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/22/nx-s1-5372637/food-dyes-ban-fda-rfk-kennedy https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/22/nx...) but also by relaxing food safety laws (https://www.yahoo.com/news/usda-withdraws-plan-limit-salmonella-203952779.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/usda-withdraws-plan-limit-salmone...).
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  I believe that even non-verbal and low-IQ versions of autism (ones that are unambiguous to diagnose) are also on the rise.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-research-contradicts-rfk-jrs-claim-severe-autism-cases-are-rising-rcna202791 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-research-cont... > The new research being shared this week found that only mild cases rose from 2000 to 2016. > According to the analysis, 1.2 out of 1,000 children had autism with moderate or significant impairment in 2016, compared with 1.5 out of 1,000 in 2000. By contrast, mild cases rose 139% during that period — from 3.1 out of 1,000 to 7.3 out of 1,000.
- d1sxeyes 2y ago
  I did some research on this a while back, conclusion is far from certain. There are some clear pointers to increased diagnosis (changes to the definition of autism in later DSM versions, improved awareness and access to literature), but there are also studies that indicate an increase in the number of cases. It’s impossible to be sure what’s driving this: pollutants, increased average parental age, or some other factor. Given that autism is highly heritable, most experts are sceptical of the idea that environmental factors could drive a major increase in the numbers, although again, it could be the case that genetics predicts only predisposition towards autism, rather than the condition itself. A lot of wiffle to say “we don’t know”, but if there is a genuine increase in the incidence of autism in the population for etiological reasons, it’s relatively small.
  - bhouston 2y ago
    > Given that autism is highly heritable, most experts are sceptical of the idea that environmental factors could drive a major increase in the numbers But we do know that age of fathers does drive increase autism rates - thus while there is likely a genetic component, there are degradations related to age that further increase the risk: https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/risk-of-autism-spikes-for-children-of-older-men/?fspec=1 https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/risk-of-autism-spike...
ceejayoz 2y ago
> the increase in autism Is largely illusory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Portland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Por... "The duke was highly introverted and well known for his eccentricity; he did not want to meet people and never invited anyone to his home. He employed hundreds through his various construction projects, and though well paid, the employees were not allowed to speak to him or acknowledge him. The one worker who raised his hat to the duke was promptly dismissed. The tenants on his estates were aware of his wishes and knew they were required to ignore him if they passed by. His rooms had double letterboxes, one for in-coming and another for out-going mail. Only his valet was permitted to see him in person in his quarters—he would not even let the doctor in, while his tenants and workmen received all their instructions in writing." "The underground chambers—all of which were painted pink—included a great hall 160 ft (49 m) long and 63 ft (19 m) wide, which was originally intended as a chapel, but which was instead used as a picture gallery and occasionally as a ballroom. The ballroom reportedly had a hydraulic lift that could carry 20 guests from the surface and a ceiling that was painted as a giant sunset. The duke never organised any dances in the ballroom." We'd diagnose this guy in a heartbeat now, but then, he was "eccentric". If he'd been poor and not an aristocrat, he'd have been a "moron" or "retarded" or something along those lines. It's deeply odd to see Kennedy saying it's a new phenomenon. His own aunt was lobotomized for "becoming increasingly irritable and difficult".
- bhouston 2y ago
  >> the increase in autism > Is largely illusory. Huh? First off autism rates are provable increasing in the US. It is multi-factor for sure that includes increased awareness and more access to autism tests, but... It is a proven fact that older fathers have a higher change of having offspring with autism [1] and it is also a fact that in the US (as like many places in the world) men are having their children later [2]. Together these two accepted scientific facts lead directly to increasing autism rates, no? Or do you disagree with this reasoning? The link I am positing but there isn't quite as much acceptance is that sperm degradation that leads to autism, isn't only caused by age but also influenced by plastics. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/autism-rates-rising-more-prevalent-versus-more-screening-rcna67408 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/autism-rates-risi... [2] https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/fathers-american-newborns-keep-getting-older https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/fathers-american-newborn...
jemmyw 2y ago
If you search for declining sperm counts you'll find that the evidence is all over the place. It makes a good headline, but studies have it dropping, rising, staying stable. There's no real evidence that people are having a harder time having babies at the same ages they did traditionally. The fertility rate is a social problem, probably (I guess it could be chemically induced behavior)
- chneu 2y ago
  Except what you're saying isn't true. There is a lot of evidence that fertility, especially male, is dropping. This isnt societal. The actual fertility rate of sperm has been measured to be dropping. This isn't "people aren't having kids." It's "male sperm is less fertile". This is in addition to societal trends in developed countries to have less kids.
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    There are a number of studies. I wouldn't call that a lot of evidence, because they don't agree on the results. And, because the methodology changes over time, it's probably just not possible to say that there is evidence of change between pre and post-90s papers. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-022-00626-w.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-022-00626-w.epdf https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-sperm-counts-really-declining/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-sperm-counts-... There need to be more studies of higher quality to actually establish what is happening. It's really not clear right now that anything is happening, and, if it is, if it's even a problem.
- criddell 2y ago
  The Cleveland Clinic says sperm counts have been stable for the past 50+ years for men in the US: https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/no-cause-for-panic-as-sperm-counts-found-to-be-steady https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/no-cause-for-panic-as-...
  - bhouston 2y ago
    It is a weird caveat in that study that sort of makes it a tautology: “We found that at least in men with no known fertility challenges, sperm counts are largely stable and haven't changed significantly in the last few years, which is reassuring news." It is a weird exclusion. I response I would ask then if the number of males with fertility issues, and thus excluded, are increasing or also stable. They answer that at the end: "“We didn't track men who were fertile who became infertile. I think based upon the literature so far, that might be the case due to obesity or environmental exposures, and more research is needed to definitively answer that question."
lm28469 2y ago
AFAIK most people can still technically have kids, they just chose not to do so. It's easy to verify because communities living in the same countries, in the same environments, for generations, have wildly different fertility rates

mapt 2y ago

It could easily turn out to be a not very severe problem, like "Use rayon instead of polyester for your clothing" or "No more styrofoam, because styrene monomer offgassing in your lungs"; The issue is that without a lot of dedicated study (probably animal studies into the millions of individual-exposure-years) we wouldn't even know. These things are too ubiquitous in modern life to readily separate them from us with careful non-experimental study design.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

Is autism actually on the rise, or is it just more diagnosed thanks to advances in and availability of diagnoses and general awareness in the population? A lot of people that get a fresh autism diagnosis these days recognize the same symptoms in their (grand)parents. Anyway, RFK does seem to focus on food stuffs, by banning certain food dyes (no more lurid froot loops for you (https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/22/nx-s1-5372637/food-dyes-ban-fda-rfk-kennedy https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/22/nx...) but also by relaxing food safety laws (https://www.yahoo.com/news/usda-withdraws-plan-limit-salmonella-203952779.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/usda-withdraws-plan-limit-salmone...).

Workaccount2 2y ago
I believe that even non-verbal and low-IQ versions of autism (ones that are unambiguous to diagnose) are also on the rise.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-research-contradicts-rfk-jrs-claim-severe-autism-cases-are-rising-rcna202791 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-research-cont... > The new research being shared this week found that only mild cases rose from 2000 to 2016. > According to the analysis, 1.2 out of 1,000 children had autism with moderate or significant impairment in 2016, compared with 1.5 out of 1,000 in 2000. By contrast, mild cases rose 139% during that period — from 3.1 out of 1,000 to 7.3 out of 1,000.
d1sxeyes 2y ago
I did some research on this a while back, conclusion is far from certain. There are some clear pointers to increased diagnosis (changes to the definition of autism in later DSM versions, improved awareness and access to literature), but there are also studies that indicate an increase in the number of cases. It’s impossible to be sure what’s driving this: pollutants, increased average parental age, or some other factor. Given that autism is highly heritable, most experts are sceptical of the idea that environmental factors could drive a major increase in the numbers, although again, it could be the case that genetics predicts only predisposition towards autism, rather than the condition itself. A lot of wiffle to say “we don’t know”, but if there is a genuine increase in the incidence of autism in the population for etiological reasons, it’s relatively small.
- bhouston 2y ago
  > Given that autism is highly heritable, most experts are sceptical of the idea that environmental factors could drive a major increase in the numbers But we do know that age of fathers does drive increase autism rates - thus while there is likely a genetic component, there are degradations related to age that further increase the risk: https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/risk-of-autism-spikes-for-children-of-older-men/?fspec=1 https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/risk-of-autism-spike...

ceejayoz 2y ago

> the increase in autism Is largely illusory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Portland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Por... "The duke was highly introverted and well known for his eccentricity; he did not want to meet people and never invited anyone to his home. He employed hundreds through his various construction projects, and though well paid, the employees were not allowed to speak to him or acknowledge him. The one worker who raised his hat to the duke was promptly dismissed. The tenants on his estates were aware of his wishes and knew they were required to ignore him if they passed by. His rooms had double letterboxes, one for in-coming and another for out-going mail. Only his valet was permitted to see him in person in his quarters—he would not even let the doctor in, while his tenants and workmen received all their instructions in writing." "The underground chambers—all of which were painted pink—included a great hall 160 ft (49 m) long and 63 ft (19 m) wide, which was originally intended as a chapel, but which was instead used as a picture gallery and occasionally as a ballroom. The ballroom reportedly had a hydraulic lift that could carry 20 guests from the surface and a ceiling that was painted as a giant sunset. The duke never organised any dances in the ballroom." We'd diagnose this guy in a heartbeat now, but then, he was "eccentric". If he'd been poor and not an aristocrat, he'd have been a "moron" or "retarded" or something along those lines. It's deeply odd to see Kennedy saying it's a new phenomenon. His own aunt was lobotomized for "becoming increasingly irritable and difficult".

bhouston 2y ago
>> the increase in autism > Is largely illusory. Huh? First off autism rates are provable increasing in the US. It is multi-factor for sure that includes increased awareness and more access to autism tests, but... It is a proven fact that older fathers have a higher change of having offspring with autism [1] and it is also a fact that in the US (as like many places in the world) men are having their children later [2]. Together these two accepted scientific facts lead directly to increasing autism rates, no? Or do you disagree with this reasoning? The link I am positing but there isn't quite as much acceptance is that sperm degradation that leads to autism, isn't only caused by age but also influenced by plastics. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/autism-rates-rising-more-prevalent-versus-more-screening-rcna67408 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/autism-rates-risi... [2] https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/fathers-american-newborns-keep-getting-older https://biox.stanford.edu/highlight/fathers-american-newborn...

jemmyw 2y ago

If you search for declining sperm counts you'll find that the evidence is all over the place. It makes a good headline, but studies have it dropping, rising, staying stable. There's no real evidence that people are having a harder time having babies at the same ages they did traditionally. The fertility rate is a social problem, probably (I guess it could be chemically induced behavior)

chneu 2y ago
Except what you're saying isn't true. There is a lot of evidence that fertility, especially male, is dropping. This isnt societal. The actual fertility rate of sperm has been measured to be dropping. This isn't "people aren't having kids." It's "male sperm is less fertile". This is in addition to societal trends in developed countries to have less kids.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  There are a number of studies. I wouldn't call that a lot of evidence, because they don't agree on the results. And, because the methodology changes over time, it's probably just not possible to say that there is evidence of change between pre and post-90s papers. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-022-00626-w.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41585-022-00626-w.epdf https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-sperm-counts-really-declining/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-sperm-counts-... There need to be more studies of higher quality to actually establish what is happening. It's really not clear right now that anything is happening, and, if it is, if it's even a problem.
criddell 2y ago
The Cleveland Clinic says sperm counts have been stable for the past 50+ years for men in the US: https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/no-cause-for-panic-as-sperm-counts-found-to-be-steady https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/no-cause-for-panic-as-...
- bhouston 2y ago
  It is a weird caveat in that study that sort of makes it a tautology: “We found that at least in men with no known fertility challenges, sperm counts are largely stable and haven't changed significantly in the last few years, which is reassuring news." It is a weird exclusion. I response I would ask then if the number of males with fertility issues, and thus excluded, are increasing or also stable. They answer that at the end: "“We didn't track men who were fertile who became infertile. I think based upon the literature so far, that might be the case due to obesity or environmental exposures, and more research is needed to definitively answer that question."

lm28469 2y ago

AFAIK most people can still technically have kids, they just chose not to do so. It's easy to verify because communities living in the same countries, in the same environments, for generations, have wildly different fertility rates