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> What is the role of renewables? > Spain is on its way to being a green energy leader: it has abundant sun and wind. Last year was a record period for renewabl

> What is the role of renewables? > Spain is on its way to being a green energy leader: it has abundant sun and wind. Last year was a record period for renewable power generation, which accounted for 56% of all electricity used. By 2030 that proportion will rise to 81%. > That shift will help Spain end its reliance on energy imports, but it also brings its own challenges. Every national grid in the world will need to spend heavily to upgrade distribution systems to connect scattered renewable generation and ensure it is balanced. That does not answer the interesting (and slightly conspiratory) question. Did renewables play any negative role in this at all?

ta1243 1y ago
People will believe whatever they want to believe, well in advance of any concrete statement. The actual truth won't matter. The right will use this as a call to burn more coal, the left will say "it doesn't matter because the planet is at stake", and we'll move on. The reality doesn't matter to 90% of people.
- mr_mitm 1y ago
  But the planet is at stake. Do we not agree that the reality is that renewables are the only sustainable option for energy production?
  - ta1243 1y ago
    The cause needs to be investigated and appropriate measures put in place. Renewables however can't be the only answer - storage is key too. Wide scale blackouts aren't exactly unknown, no matter what the generation. And while you and I may agree, sadly the people who need convincing are those who listen and vote for the parties who say "it doesn't matter what we do here when China builds more coal power plants a week than we've ever had". When they say "the reason you were without power is solar", and the opposition say "doesn't matter, you can't have gas", they aren't going to vote for the opposition.
  - sofixa 1y ago
    > Do we not agree that the reality is that renewables are the only sustainable option for energy production? No, we do not, unless you use a very narrow definition of sustainable. Nuclear will play a big part, especially in Western Europe, thanks to France which exports to all its neighbours and is a good stabilising provider. And other than that, who knows. Green hydrogen could be a solution for energy storage.
    - adrianN 1y ago
      France is effectively planning to reduce nuclear power though. Since they want to keep nuclear weapons it won’t go to zero, but they’re not planning to build enough new reactors to maintain their current output. Electricity demand however will increase in the future.
    - ndr42 1y ago
      Since we are taking about the planet about "the planet at stake" I am not so sure that nuclear in france can play such a big part. Climate change will make it much more difficult, this is from Wikipedia: As of early September 2022, 32 of France's 56 nuclear reactors were shut down due to maintenance or technical problems. In 2022, Europe's driest summer in 500 years had serious consequences for power plant cooling systems, as the drought reduced the amount of river water available for cooling.
      - sofixa 1y ago
        > In 2022, Europe's driest summer in 500 years had serious consequences for power plant cooling systems, as the drought reduced the amount of river water available for cooling. And rules around this have been adjusted to have less of an impact for the next "once in a 500 years" event. Also, in the same way that France's nuclear power generation being out was covered by German and British renewables, during low points of renewable generation in those countries, French nuclear covered the gaps. That's the point of an interconnected network.
  - polotics 1y ago
    renewables that could renew themselves would be great, but neither solar panels nor wind turbines have an energy return on energy invested. that looks good right now to really close the cycle. much trucking and container shipping is involved in the so-called renewable solution
- Buxato 1y ago
  Thanks non-people-smart 10%, the "right" it's only trying to not close the remaining nuclear plants. I didn't hear anybody call to burn more coal (that will be stupid, specially in Spain). New modern nuclear plants are needed to have a more balanced energy pool, and not depend so much in natural gas. Anyway there is no confirmation yet on what happened, we will see.
  - mr_mitm 1y ago
    Well, here is one person who even has somewhat of an influence calling to burn more coal: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5359013/trump-orders-coal-revival-market-favors-natural-gas https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5359013/trump-orders-co...
    - verzali 1y ago
      Trump is not president of Spain.
      - mr_mitm 1y ago
        Thanks, I know. At which point in this comment chain were we discussing the president of Spain though? Buxato stated they didn't hear "anybody", not "anybody in Spain".
      - ignoramous 1y ago
        Not yet... did lose in Canada though.
  - ta1243 1y ago
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f4476083e9854ba3 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f4476083e9854ba3 Richard Tice, the Reform party’s deputy leader and energy spokesman, said the events in Spain should be a warning to Britain and showed the risks of net zero. He said: “We need to know the exact causes but this should be seen as a wake-up call to the eco-zealots. “Power grids need to operate within tight parameters to remain stable. Wind and solar outputs by contrast, vary hugely over long and short periods so they add risk to the system. The UK’s grid operators and our Government should take heed.” That's the same Richard Tice that blamed a substation fire on Net Zero and wants to tax renewable power to subsidise non-renewables. A roundup of people jumping to conclusions is at https://reneweconomy.com.au/spains-blackout-has-already-triggered-a-firestorm-of-disinformation/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/spains-blackout-has-already-trig... > The core priority of grid services right now is getting power restored, rather than establishing the narrow chain of causal events, which will take weeks or likely months. That will be more than enough time for the narrative to be set in stone; immune to whatever reality emerges from careful investigation.
kranke155 1y ago
Someone already answered this, and yes renewables don't help and you need other kinds of plants. That doesn't tell us much about what actually caused it.
- soco 1y ago
  But those other kind of power plants are okay to stay off and start only when such situations arise, right? Still good for the environment I guess - you only burn fossils when the network restarts, which will probably only happen every few years in some corner of the continent. If I understood it correctly, that is.
  - fakedang 1y ago
    The issue with solar and wind is that when they're being initiated in the project stage, they're advertised as the equivalent of some amount of average power (or even maximum power, if the project initiators want to be disingenuous about it), when the required amount of construction to match baseload capacity would easily be 3-4x that number. There really is no one-size-fits-all solution, except for having an energy mix of renewables, with existing thermal power on standby.
    - oezi 1y ago
      With the caveat that the standby is likely only going to be required during winter in case of prolonged dark and windless weather. Everything else will be covered by renewables + battery.
      - sofixa 1y ago
        > With the caveat that the standby is likely only going to be required during winter in case of prolonged dark and windless weather Which had already happened a few times across big parts of Europe, with weeks of overcast and low wind weather. Specifically for Spain, a better backup wil probably be more interconnects with France and their stable nuclear power.
      - 1y ago
baq 1y ago
Yup they did. We’ll have to wait for the postmortem to understand how much. Lack of rotating mass and/or battery farms is a known problem.

ta1243 1y ago

People will believe whatever they want to believe, well in advance of any concrete statement. The actual truth won't matter. The right will use this as a call to burn more coal, the left will say "it doesn't matter because the planet is at stake", and we'll move on. The reality doesn't matter to 90% of people.

mr_mitm 1y ago
But the planet is at stake. Do we not agree that the reality is that renewables are the only sustainable option for energy production?
- ta1243 1y ago
  The cause needs to be investigated and appropriate measures put in place. Renewables however can't be the only answer - storage is key too. Wide scale blackouts aren't exactly unknown, no matter what the generation. And while you and I may agree, sadly the people who need convincing are those who listen and vote for the parties who say "it doesn't matter what we do here when China builds more coal power plants a week than we've ever had". When they say "the reason you were without power is solar", and the opposition say "doesn't matter, you can't have gas", they aren't going to vote for the opposition.
- sofixa 1y ago
  > Do we not agree that the reality is that renewables are the only sustainable option for energy production? No, we do not, unless you use a very narrow definition of sustainable. Nuclear will play a big part, especially in Western Europe, thanks to France which exports to all its neighbours and is a good stabilising provider. And other than that, who knows. Green hydrogen could be a solution for energy storage.
  - adrianN 1y ago
    France is effectively planning to reduce nuclear power though. Since they want to keep nuclear weapons it won’t go to zero, but they’re not planning to build enough new reactors to maintain their current output. Electricity demand however will increase in the future.
  - ndr42 1y ago
    Since we are taking about the planet about "the planet at stake" I am not so sure that nuclear in france can play such a big part. Climate change will make it much more difficult, this is from Wikipedia: As of early September 2022, 32 of France's 56 nuclear reactors were shut down due to maintenance or technical problems. In 2022, Europe's driest summer in 500 years had serious consequences for power plant cooling systems, as the drought reduced the amount of river water available for cooling.
    - sofixa 1y ago
      > In 2022, Europe's driest summer in 500 years had serious consequences for power plant cooling systems, as the drought reduced the amount of river water available for cooling. And rules around this have been adjusted to have less of an impact for the next "once in a 500 years" event. Also, in the same way that France's nuclear power generation being out was covered by German and British renewables, during low points of renewable generation in those countries, French nuclear covered the gaps. That's the point of an interconnected network.
- polotics 1y ago
  renewables that could renew themselves would be great, but neither solar panels nor wind turbines have an energy return on energy invested. that looks good right now to really close the cycle. much trucking and container shipping is involved in the so-called renewable solution
Buxato 1y ago
Thanks non-people-smart 10%, the "right" it's only trying to not close the remaining nuclear plants. I didn't hear anybody call to burn more coal (that will be stupid, specially in Spain). New modern nuclear plants are needed to have a more balanced energy pool, and not depend so much in natural gas. Anyway there is no confirmation yet on what happened, we will see.
- mr_mitm 1y ago
  Well, here is one person who even has somewhat of an influence calling to burn more coal: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5359013/trump-orders-coal-revival-market-favors-natural-gas https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5359013/trump-orders-co...
  - verzali 1y ago
    Trump is not president of Spain.
    - mr_mitm 1y ago
      Thanks, I know. At which point in this comment chain were we discussing the president of Spain though? Buxato stated they didn't hear "anybody", not "anybody in Spain".
    - ignoramous 1y ago
      Not yet... did lose in Canada though.
- ta1243 1y ago
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f4476083e9854ba3 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f4476083e9854ba3 Richard Tice, the Reform party’s deputy leader and energy spokesman, said the events in Spain should be a warning to Britain and showed the risks of net zero. He said: “We need to know the exact causes but this should be seen as a wake-up call to the eco-zealots. “Power grids need to operate within tight parameters to remain stable. Wind and solar outputs by contrast, vary hugely over long and short periods so they add risk to the system. The UK’s grid operators and our Government should take heed.” That's the same Richard Tice that blamed a substation fire on Net Zero and wants to tax renewable power to subsidise non-renewables. A roundup of people jumping to conclusions is at https://reneweconomy.com.au/spains-blackout-has-already-triggered-a-firestorm-of-disinformation/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/spains-blackout-has-already-trig... > The core priority of grid services right now is getting power restored, rather than establishing the narrow chain of causal events, which will take weeks or likely months. That will be more than enough time for the narrative to be set in stone; immune to whatever reality emerges from careful investigation.

kranke155 1y ago

Someone already answered this, and yes renewables don't help and you need other kinds of plants. That doesn't tell us much about what actually caused it.

soco 1y ago
But those other kind of power plants are okay to stay off and start only when such situations arise, right? Still good for the environment I guess - you only burn fossils when the network restarts, which will probably only happen every few years in some corner of the continent. If I understood it correctly, that is.
- fakedang 1y ago
  The issue with solar and wind is that when they're being initiated in the project stage, they're advertised as the equivalent of some amount of average power (or even maximum power, if the project initiators want to be disingenuous about it), when the required amount of construction to match baseload capacity would easily be 3-4x that number. There really is no one-size-fits-all solution, except for having an energy mix of renewables, with existing thermal power on standby.
  - oezi 1y ago
    With the caveat that the standby is likely only going to be required during winter in case of prolonged dark and windless weather. Everything else will be covered by renewables + battery.
    - sofixa 1y ago
      > With the caveat that the standby is likely only going to be required during winter in case of prolonged dark and windless weather Which had already happened a few times across big parts of Europe, with weeks of overcast and low wind weather. Specifically for Spain, a better backup wil probably be more interconnects with France and their stable nuclear power.
    - 1y ago

baq 1y ago

Yup they did. We’ll have to wait for the postmortem to understand how much. Lack of rotating mass and/or battery farms is a known problem.