7 ms·
How do energy intensive processes like aluminium smelters or window glass producers preven their machines from self destruction ?
by ashoeafoot 1y ago
How do energy intensive processes like aluminium smelters or window glass producers preven their machines from self destruction ?
- exar0815 1y agoCan't answer for aluminium, but I can answer for window glass: One of our plants was threatened by massive flooding 2021, threatening the float glass oven (which doesn't float itself despite the name). It was closed off with insulation, turned off, and everyone hoped for the best and no steam explosion. In the end, only the cellars with the control equipment flooded and it could be gradually (as the control cabinets were checked and restarted) brought up again without loosing too much heat a day later. In short: Heat Inertia of large molten bodies is massive with good insulation. If the time is too long tho, only dynamite will dismantle a solid chunk of material again.
- echoangle 1y agoIs the heater keeping the material liquid not enough to re-melt it again?
- xnx 1y agoI'm guessing that liquid glass gets into some spots/crevices that it cannot be remelted from using built-in heat sources.
- exar0815 1y agoIts not an oven alone, its a kiln that smelts up the components for glass of the desired recipe, then purs the glass on a long (~half a km) basin of molten tin where it stretches and cools slowly, pushing the solidifying mass down the basin until the end. Re-Melting it is as far as i know not possible, as the melting is done before the pouring. You can melt the tin again, but not the glass.
- LunaSea 1y agoInteresting! Does this mean that you could use intermittent energy sources, like solar power, to heat up the float glass oven during the day and it woul keep enough heat during the night so that it could keep running in the morning?
- jerven 1y agoYes, in theory, but your process control would be terrible, thus your product would also be terrible. Unless you invent something very clever.
- BiteCode_dev 1y agoBut that makes them superb heat battery, which is under used at the moment to store energy.
- pas 1y agobecause of the Carnot cycle, no? it just doesn't make much sense to store energy as heat
- BiteCode_dev 1y agoA lot of energy is spent to heat things anyway.
- exar0815 1y agoFloat glass is a continuous process, so it runs 24/7 and too much product is recycled into the smelter at the start again (Funnily, glass waste is actually a scarce resource). Getting the process dialed in to emit the desired quality is a long winded thing as far as i know (not involved in the process myself). Also, the heating is done with gas (LNG/CNG/H2) and electric in combination.
- Mistletoe 1y agoHow did you find that much insulation quickly and what kind was it?
- exar0815 1y agoThe Insulation is in place all the time because the process is very energy intensive and the glass over the whole basin is supposed to cool evenly. Just the end is not closed off as the glass is ejected in a continuous endless stream[1]. https://www.blindex.com.br/-/media/blindex/site-content/xx-not-filed-xx/whatisfloatglass.jpg https://www.blindex.com.br/-/media/blindex/site-content/xx-n...
- m4rtink 1y agoIt works also with cold/frozen stuff - you can even store snow over the summer if needed: https://www.slf.ch/en/snow/snow-sports/schnee-und-ressourcenmanagement/snowfarming-preserving-snow-over-the-summer/ https://www.slf.ch/en/snow/snow-sports/schnee-und-ressourcen...
- bob1029 1y agoIn some cases they don't have any practical ability to. The Texas winter storm resulted in a lot of scrap at semiconductor lines due to power loss. There are industries that are completely dependent on grid power. You can't generate enough on site to back up 100% of your operation. Think about how much power one EUV source consumes. The only reason Samsung is building additional factories in Texas is because the local utilities are effectively treating them as a critical load. The new plants are right by the ERCOT operation center and likely have access to the same cranking paths that the grid uses for black starts.
- adrianN 1y agoI have no idea how much power an EUV source consumes, but I’m surprised to hear that it’s more than a handful of kW. What’s the right ballpark?
- brohee 1y agoASML says 1.3 MW for a single system. So off by three orders of magnitude. https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2024/a-sustainability-mindset https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2024/a-sustainability-m...
- jsjohnst 1y agoThanks for sharing the link! 1.3MW really isn’t that high of a load though. Thats a very straightforward load to be able to support via diesel generators. As an example, a typical large datacenter uses an order of magnitude more power, yet stays online following a grid outage.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pfdietz 1y agoIt's 1743 horsepower.
- _3u10 1y agoPower guarantees and insurance. They are also frequently situated close to reliable power sources such as nuclear or hydro, usually fed by more than one generating station. A friend of mine lived close to a brick plant his power NEVER went out.
- ehnto 1y agoI had the same experience living near a hospital. The whole city has gone out a few times, and our grid was either still up, or is one of the first grids back up.
- consp 1y agoAnecdotal example: The, now closed, Aluminium plant here was build only because the government build a nuclear plant, which is still going. There was a coal plant next to it (closed now) as a backup for when nuclear was not available. Funny thing is most people thought the coal plant was the nuclear plant when driving by since it looks more like a plant, the nuclear dome structure is kind of hidden from the road and since natural water is used as cooling no big towers are close by.