4 ms·

the opportunity cost isn't a 7% increase in length, it's the tens of billions in extra infrastructure to build 350km/h right of way straight through the middle

the opportunity cost isn't a 7% increase in length, it's the tens of billions in extra infrastructure to build 350km/h right of way straight through the middle of every town all the way down the central valley, and the massive hit to SF-LA run time that will come with that. beyond the stop penalty, HSR just doesn't run at full speed through city centers anywhere in the world. doesn't happen.

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
As I wrote elsewhere, the average speed of CA HSR (as planned) is 250 km/h, which is very competitive, internationally. It's about as fast as the fastest French TGV routes. It only really lags behind the fastest Chinese routes, which run at average speeds of about 290 km/h. If CA HSR can go through the cities in the Central Valley and still achieve an average speed of 250 km/h, that's well worth it.
slt2021 1y ago
people who need to get from SF to LA as soon as possible are already served by the airplanes. Your business class traveler from LA/orange county to SF bay is already well served by the many airports in both metro areas. the HSR is about connecting the rest of the state to economic opportunities in these large metro areas
- steveBK123 1y ago
  SF-LA ~380mi is actually a real sweet spot for HSR. Flight time of 90 minutes but the hassle of getting out to airport, check-in, boarding.. and then the opposite on the other end makes your all-in travel time about 4~5 hours. With HSR you are generally going city center to city center, and 380mi is achievable in 2~2.5 hours all-in. I took a 700mi HSR in Japan that was probably on the very far end of being competitive time wise with flying and was still great. 5hr train vs 2hr plane segment, but all-in door-to-door travel times were comparable (5h45m vs 5hr). Train 5hr45m door to door with majority of time sat in a comfy quiet train with big comfy seats and high speed internet. A flight which is 5hr door to door is mostly a ton of hurry-up-and-wait with small blocks of 30-90min here or there you can read a book.
- ta1243 1y ago
  If you want HSR you'd have at most one stop between LA and SF. If you're going to stop throughout the rest of the state you just want normal rail running at 100-120mph.
huhcat 1y ago
> HSR just doesn't run at full speed through city centers anywhere in the world. doesn't happen. Wrong. It's most definitely a thing in quite a few mid-sized Japanese cities. Here's a compilation video taken at Fukushima Station (https://youtu.be/K-wkX3vFU_A?t=403 https://youtu.be/K-wkX3vFU_A?t=403) on the fastest 320 km/h line for example. You can check for yourself that the station is dead smack downtown in a city of 275,000. At the world level it doesn't tend to happen because existing developments in cities usually strongly inhibit the construction of straight rail alignments that can support high-speed operations. But that's not a problem in the Central Valley – they're blessed with excellent existing rights-of-way.

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago

As I wrote elsewhere, the average speed of CA HSR (as planned) is 250 km/h, which is very competitive, internationally. It's about as fast as the fastest French TGV routes. It only really lags behind the fastest Chinese routes, which run at average speeds of about 290 km/h. If CA HSR can go through the cities in the Central Valley and still achieve an average speed of 250 km/h, that's well worth it.

slt2021 1y ago

people who need to get from SF to LA as soon as possible are already served by the airplanes. Your business class traveler from LA/orange county to SF bay is already well served by the many airports in both metro areas. the HSR is about connecting the rest of the state to economic opportunities in these large metro areas

steveBK123 1y ago
SF-LA ~380mi is actually a real sweet spot for HSR. Flight time of 90 minutes but the hassle of getting out to airport, check-in, boarding.. and then the opposite on the other end makes your all-in travel time about 4~5 hours. With HSR you are generally going city center to city center, and 380mi is achievable in 2~2.5 hours all-in. I took a 700mi HSR in Japan that was probably on the very far end of being competitive time wise with flying and was still great. 5hr train vs 2hr plane segment, but all-in door-to-door travel times were comparable (5h45m vs 5hr). Train 5hr45m door to door with majority of time sat in a comfy quiet train with big comfy seats and high speed internet. A flight which is 5hr door to door is mostly a ton of hurry-up-and-wait with small blocks of 30-90min here or there you can read a book.
ta1243 1y ago
If you want HSR you'd have at most one stop between LA and SF. If you're going to stop throughout the rest of the state you just want normal rail running at 100-120mph.

huhcat 1y ago

> HSR just doesn't run at full speed through city centers anywhere in the world. doesn't happen. Wrong. It's most definitely a thing in quite a few mid-sized Japanese cities. Here's a compilation video taken at Fukushima Station (https://youtu.be/K-wkX3vFU_A?t=403 https://youtu.be/K-wkX3vFU_A?t=403) on the fastest 320 km/h line for example. You can check for yourself that the station is dead smack downtown in a city of 275,000. At the world level it doesn't tend to happen because existing developments in cities usually strongly inhibit the construction of straight rail alignments that can support high-speed operations. But that's not a problem in the Central Valley – they're blessed with excellent existing rights-of-way.