4 ms·

How do you define "spam"?

gibibit 2y ago
To me, spam is unsolicited email or phone calls. People or organizations contacting me when I haven't requested they do so.
- paulcole 2y ago
  OK, was just curious. I only think of it as unsolicited mass email. If something's tailored to me or a call, I just think of it as part of doing business.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. The term has moved to other forms of mass unsolicited advertising. The first spams weren't email but Usenet (notably Cantor and Siegel's "Green Card" spam, which I remember, though that wasn't the first[1]). We've now got email spam, Web spam, forum spam, SMS spam, phone spam, etc., etc., etc. The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Keep in mind that robocallers (which may have an automated or human at the other end) are dialing billions of numbers in the US per month[2]. Amongst other considerations: spammed networks die as those who find them intolerable defect from them. Phones (and Usenet, and email) were once exclusive, and hence, where intelligent and desired communications were to be found. As costs of utilisation and access fell, that is no longer the case. An instance of the Jevons Paradox as well as Gresham's Law: falling costs leads to increased use, falling barriers to participation makes bad usage drive out good. Direct-dial, universal-access telephony is teetering on the edge of death. ________________________________ Notes: 1. Brad Templeton has a history and etymology dating to at least 2001, which makes clear that the term arises from any unspecified "net abuse", with his first instance being in 1978. The phone system is itself a network. "Origin of the term "spam" to mean net abuse" <https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.temple...>. 2. See: "Phone Call Spam Statistics (2017 – 2024)" <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-spam-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-...>, "How many spam phone calls do Americans receive?" <https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-americans-receive/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-a...> (reported calls only), "Truecaller U.S. Spam Scorecard" <https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats>. Two of the three report 3 billion+ spam calls per month. There are about 331 million mobile phone subscribers in the US (virtually one per person), which would mean over 100 spam calls per month. Some would suspect this is a severe underestimation.
    - paulcole 1y ago
      How can this be true: > Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. If this is also true: > The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Say I send an unsolicited email by typing it to a businessperson I want to sell my product to. They get my email and didn’t want to receive it. But it wasn’t mass and it was unsolicited. Was it spam?
      - dredmorbius 1y ago
        I'll trust in your capacity to resolve any concerns with what I wrote. Your hypo is utterly unrealistic in that it doesn't reflect reality, or what any business operating a marketing campaign would actually do. But yes, it is spam.
        paulcole 1y ago
        > I'll trust in your capacity to resolve any concerns with what I wrote. Yes, that is what I would do as well if I didn't want to answer a clear question. > But yes, it is spam. So then you retract this, "The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited." because the only requirement is that the recipient see it as spam?
    - chuckadams 1y ago
      There’s documented UCE from before, but Cantor and Siegel is regarded as the first sustained spam campaign. As for the term itself, it comes from the BBS era, referring to flooding a chat with the traditional Viking chant of “spam spam spam spam”
Suppafly 2y ago
>How do you define "spam"? You know the answer. Only assholes need clarification that unsolicited contact is spam.
- paulcole 2y ago
  I mean there's a legal definition of it. I personally don't think cold calling someone to make a sale is spam. The caveat being that if they tell me to not call again, I won't. And LinkedIn messages don't bother me as long as they follow the rules of the site which don't prohibit cold outreach.
  - shtack 2y ago
    Strong disagree. My personal number has also leaked and I get 5-10 cold calls per day. They call during important work meetings. They call during dinner with my family. They call when I'm away on vacation. I will never, ever willingly buy any product from these calls.
    - hardwaresofton 2y ago
      Sounds like you need AI call screening. Don't know when that will get here, but when it does (and better AI-powered spam filtering), I think a lot of these problems will disappear, and a lot of sales teams are going to have to rethink.
      - Suppafly 2y ago
        Google Fi has screening you can enable either for all unknown callers automatically or manually by tapping a button when the call pops up.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >I personally don't think cold calling someone to make a sale is spam. You're wrong.
    - 1y ago
ihsw 2y ago
Any communication that I did not opt-in for.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jppope 2y ago
Attractive person walks up to you and asks you for your number - not spam. Unattractive person walks up to you and asks you for your number - spam. Company has a thing I need and calls me at the right time - not spam. Company calls me up when I'm not looking to buy something - spam.
- snowwrestler 2y ago
  Ha, this is like the old recruiting joke where the manager drops half the resumes in the trash can and says “sorry, we only hire lucky people here.” You’re right, of course, timing and fit are the things that work. I don’t think LLMs are going to magically solve either.

To me, spam is unsolicited email or phone calls. People or organizations contacting me when I haven't requested they do so.

paulcole 2y ago
OK, was just curious. I only think of it as unsolicited mass email. If something's tailored to me or a call, I just think of it as part of doing business.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. The term has moved to other forms of mass unsolicited advertising. The first spams weren't email but Usenet (notably Cantor and Siegel's "Green Card" spam, which I remember, though that wasn't the first[1]). We've now got email spam, Web spam, forum spam, SMS spam, phone spam, etc., etc., etc. The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Keep in mind that robocallers (which may have an automated or human at the other end) are dialing billions of numbers in the US per month[2]. Amongst other considerations: spammed networks die as those who find them intolerable defect from them. Phones (and Usenet, and email) were once exclusive, and hence, where intelligent and desired communications were to be found. As costs of utilisation and access fell, that is no longer the case. An instance of the Jevons Paradox as well as Gresham's Law: falling costs leads to increased use, falling barriers to participation makes bad usage drive out good. Direct-dial, universal-access telephony is teetering on the edge of death. ________________________________ Notes: 1. Brad Templeton has a history and etymology dating to at least 2001, which makes clear that the term arises from any unspecified "net abuse", with his first instance being in 1978. The phone system is itself a network. "Origin of the term "spam" to mean net abuse" <https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.temple...>. 2. See: "Phone Call Spam Statistics (2017 – 2024)" <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-spam-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-...>, "How many spam phone calls do Americans receive?" <https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-americans-receive/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-a...> (reported calls only), "Truecaller U.S. Spam Scorecard" <https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats>. Two of the three report 3 billion+ spam calls per month. There are about 331 million mobile phone subscribers in the US (virtually one per person), which would mean over 100 spam calls per month. Some would suspect this is a severe underestimation.
  - paulcole 1y ago
    How can this be true: > Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. If this is also true: > The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Say I send an unsolicited email by typing it to a businessperson I want to sell my product to. They get my email and didn’t want to receive it. But it wasn’t mass and it was unsolicited. Was it spam?
    - dredmorbius 1y ago
      I'll trust in your capacity to resolve any concerns with what I wrote. Your hypo is utterly unrealistic in that it doesn't reflect reality, or what any business operating a marketing campaign would actually do. But yes, it is spam.
      - paulcole 1y ago
        > I'll trust in your capacity to resolve any concerns with what I wrote. Yes, that is what I would do as well if I didn't want to answer a clear question. > But yes, it is spam. So then you retract this, "The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited." because the only requirement is that the recipient see it as spam?
  - chuckadams 1y ago
    There’s documented UCE from before, but Cantor and Siegel is regarded as the first sustained spam campaign. As for the term itself, it comes from the BBS era, referring to flooding a chat with the traditional Viking chant of “spam spam spam spam”

Suppafly 2y ago

>How do you define "spam"? You know the answer. Only assholes need clarification that unsolicited contact is spam.

paulcole 2y ago
I mean there's a legal definition of it. I personally don't think cold calling someone to make a sale is spam. The caveat being that if they tell me to not call again, I won't. And LinkedIn messages don't bother me as long as they follow the rules of the site which don't prohibit cold outreach.
- shtack 2y ago
  Strong disagree. My personal number has also leaked and I get 5-10 cold calls per day. They call during important work meetings. They call during dinner with my family. They call when I'm away on vacation. I will never, ever willingly buy any product from these calls.
  - hardwaresofton 2y ago
    Sounds like you need AI call screening. Don't know when that will get here, but when it does (and better AI-powered spam filtering), I think a lot of these problems will disappear, and a lot of sales teams are going to have to rethink.
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      Google Fi has screening you can enable either for all unknown callers automatically or manually by tapping a button when the call pops up.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >I personally don't think cold calling someone to make a sale is spam. You're wrong.
  - 1y ago

ihsw 2y ago

Any communication that I did not opt-in for.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jppope 2y ago

Attractive person walks up to you and asks you for your number - not spam. Unattractive person walks up to you and asks you for your number - spam. Company has a thing I need and calls me at the right time - not spam. Company calls me up when I'm not looking to buy something - spam.

snowwrestler 2y ago
Ha, this is like the old recruiting joke where the manager drops half the resumes in the trash can and says “sorry, we only hire lucky people here.” You’re right, of course, timing and fit are the things that work. I don’t think LLMs are going to magically solve either.