7 ms·

Whether it's crafted by AI or not, outbound is spam, and only scammy companies use it these days.

by cpncrunch 1y ago

havefunbesafe 1y ago
Every enterprise SaaS company with a sales team uses outbound.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  So you agree then?
- xmodem 1y ago
  Doesn't make it any less spammy/scammy
- kjs3 1y ago
  Quod erat demonstrandum?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
jasonthorsness 1y ago
Somehow my personal phone number leaked into some database, and I get multiple SaaS calls per day. I welcome the day when it's all AI because I hate to be rude to real people but these sorts of calls almost force it.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  I'm less hesitant to be rude to telemarketers anymore. Yes, they have a shitty job, yes, it's not their fault that your number is on their list. But it's a job they are choosing to do, knowing they are an integral part of the problem. Kind of like the "Contractors on the death star" ethical example. If someone was paid to kick my puppy, I'm not going to just be OK with it because, "hey it's their job, and we're all struggling."
  - criddell 1y ago
    Being rude might be justifiable, but it still doesn't feel good.
  - tehjoker 1y ago
    > But it's a job they are choosing to do Yes, low wage workers have so many wonderful opportunities to not get evicted or starve. Don't confuse middle-class and wealthy workers with poorer ones.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    As soon as I notice they are reading from the script and aren’t the delivery person waiting with my package I just hang up immediately. No comment, I don’t even give them a chance to try to keep me on the line.
- Suppafly 1y ago
  >I hate to be rude to real people Just reminded yourself that they've chosen to remove themselves from the pool of 'real people' by participating scammy activities. They're the ones that have broken the social contract and treating them with respect just lets them continue to believe they aren't doing anything wrong.
- adriand 1y ago
  Same thing happened to me. I probably get ten calls per day. I just don’t answer the phone any more unless I recognize the number. It’s very annoying. If I accidentally answer a spam call, most of the time I’ll just hang up. But I’m also very annoyed with telephone companies. Why isn’t there a “report spam” button for phone calls?
paulcole 1y ago
How do you define "spam"?
- gibibit 1y ago
  To me, spam is unsolicited email or phone calls. People or organizations contacting me when I haven't requested they do so.
  - paulcole 1y ago
    OK, was just curious. I only think of it as unsolicited mass email. If something's tailored to me or a call, I just think of it as part of doing business.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - dredmorbius 1y ago
      Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. The term has moved to other forms of mass unsolicited advertising. The first spams weren't email but Usenet (notably Cantor and Siegel's "Green Card" spam, which I remember, though that wasn't the first[1]). We've now got email spam, Web spam, forum spam, SMS spam, phone spam, etc., etc., etc. The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Keep in mind that robocallers (which may have an automated or human at the other end) are dialing billions of numbers in the US per month[2]. Amongst other considerations: spammed networks die as those who find them intolerable defect from them. Phones (and Usenet, and email) were once exclusive, and hence, where intelligent and desired communications were to be found. As costs of utilisation and access fell, that is no longer the case. An instance of the Jevons Paradox as well as Gresham's Law: falling costs leads to increased use, falling barriers to participation makes bad usage drive out good. Direct-dial, universal-access telephony is teetering on the edge of death. ________________________________ Notes: 1. Brad Templeton has a history and etymology dating to at least 2001, which makes clear that the term arises from any unspecified "net abuse", with his first instance being in 1978. The phone system is itself a network. "Origin of the term "spam" to mean net abuse" <https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.temple...>. 2. See: "Phone Call Spam Statistics (2017 – 2024)" <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-spam-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-...>, "How many spam phone calls do Americans receive?" <https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-americans-receive/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-a...> (reported calls only), "Truecaller U.S. Spam Scorecard" <https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats>. Two of the three report 3 billion+ spam calls per month. There are about 331 million mobile phone subscribers in the US (virtually one per person), which would mean over 100 spam calls per month. Some would suspect this is a severe underestimation.
AlwaysRock 1y ago
Wild take. Almost every single company of a certain size does outbound. Just like how almost every company sends endless marketing emails. Yeah its spammy. But it also converts some small percentage of users so they will continue to do it. It's spammy. It isnt scammy.

Whether it's crafted by AI or not, outbound is spam, and only scammy companies use it these days.

havefunbesafe 1y ago

Every enterprise SaaS company with a sales team uses outbound.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
So you agree then?
xmodem 1y ago
Doesn't make it any less spammy/scammy
kjs3 1y ago
Quod erat demonstrandum?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

jasonthorsness 1y ago

Somehow my personal phone number leaked into some database, and I get multiple SaaS calls per day. I welcome the day when it's all AI because I hate to be rude to real people but these sorts of calls almost force it.

ryandrake 1y ago
I'm less hesitant to be rude to telemarketers anymore. Yes, they have a shitty job, yes, it's not their fault that your number is on their list. But it's a job they are choosing to do, knowing they are an integral part of the problem. Kind of like the "Contractors on the death star" ethical example. If someone was paid to kick my puppy, I'm not going to just be OK with it because, "hey it's their job, and we're all struggling."
- criddell 1y ago
  Being rude might be justifiable, but it still doesn't feel good.
- tehjoker 1y ago
  > But it's a job they are choosing to do Yes, low wage workers have so many wonderful opportunities to not get evicted or starve. Don't confuse middle-class and wealthy workers with poorer ones.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  As soon as I notice they are reading from the script and aren’t the delivery person waiting with my package I just hang up immediately. No comment, I don’t even give them a chance to try to keep me on the line.
Suppafly 1y ago
>I hate to be rude to real people Just reminded yourself that they've chosen to remove themselves from the pool of 'real people' by participating scammy activities. They're the ones that have broken the social contract and treating them with respect just lets them continue to believe they aren't doing anything wrong.
adriand 1y ago
Same thing happened to me. I probably get ten calls per day. I just don’t answer the phone any more unless I recognize the number. It’s very annoying. If I accidentally answer a spam call, most of the time I’ll just hang up. But I’m also very annoyed with telephone companies. Why isn’t there a “report spam” button for phone calls?

paulcole 1y ago

How do you define "spam"?

gibibit 1y ago
To me, spam is unsolicited email or phone calls. People or organizations contacting me when I haven't requested they do so.
- paulcole 1y ago
  OK, was just curious. I only think of it as unsolicited mass email. If something's tailored to me or a call, I just think of it as part of doing business.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - dredmorbius 1y ago
    Spam is any communication the recipient doesn't want. The definition is by the recipient, not the initiator. The term has moved to other forms of mass unsolicited advertising. The first spams weren't email but Usenet (notably Cantor and Siegel's "Green Card" spam, which I remember, though that wasn't the first[1]). We've now got email spam, Web spam, forum spam, SMS spam, phone spam, etc., etc., etc. The only requirements are that it be mass (some define that as > 1 target) and unsolicited. Keep in mind that robocallers (which may have an automated or human at the other end) are dialing billions of numbers in the US per month[2]. Amongst other considerations: spammed networks die as those who find them intolerable defect from them. Phones (and Usenet, and email) were once exclusive, and hence, where intelligent and desired communications were to be found. As costs of utilisation and access fell, that is no longer the case. An instance of the Jevons Paradox as well as Gresham's Law: falling costs leads to increased use, falling barriers to participation makes bad usage drive out good. Direct-dial, universal-access telephony is teetering on the edge of death. ________________________________ Notes: 1. Brad Templeton has a history and etymology dating to at least 2001, which makes clear that the term arises from any unspecified "net abuse", with his first instance being in 1978. The phone system is itself a network. "Origin of the term "spam" to mean net abuse" <https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120716231643/http://www.temple...>. 2. See: "Phone Call Spam Statistics (2017 – 2024)" <https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-spam-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/information-security/phone-...>, "How many spam phone calls do Americans receive?" <https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-americans-receive/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-spam-phone-calls-do-a...> (reported calls only), "Truecaller U.S. Spam Scorecard" <https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats https://www.truecaller.com/us-spam-stats>. Two of the three report 3 billion+ spam calls per month. There are about 331 million mobile phone subscribers in the US (virtually one per person), which would mean over 100 spam calls per month. Some would suspect this is a severe underestimation.

AlwaysRock 1y ago

Wild take. Almost every single company of a certain size does outbound. Just like how almost every company sends endless marketing emails. Yeah its spammy. But it also converts some small percentage of users so they will continue to do it. It's spammy. It isnt scammy.