4 ms·

The disinvitation data is so incredibly small that there's no way on earth we can call this "rabid." In Haidt and Fukuyama's "The Coddling of the American Mind"

The disinvitation data is so incredibly small that there's no way on earth we can call this "rabid." In Haidt and Fukuyama's "The Coddling of the American Mind" they present data on disinvitations attempts. And it is in the tens of attempts nationwide. They even have to present the data with Milo Yiannopoulos removed since he made up a considerable portion of all disinvitation attempts. You can think that students are foolish for doing this. You can choose to stop donating because of a response by an institution. But to use this to claim that the left has "gone rabid" is ridiculous given the actual data. The students' behavior is not what drove voters towards the reactionary right. Breathless media coverage that blew this behavior completely out of proportion is responsible for this.

michtzik 2y ago
The FIRE Campus Deplatforming Database claims to collect 769 successful deplatforming attempts.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  My number is per-year. The data above is since 1998. So in the last 27 years we've seen an average of 28 successful deplatforming attempts annually. The website cites 172 attempts (not necessarily successful) in 2024. There are thousands of colleges in the US. Surely hundreds of thousands of invited talks annually. I just cannot imagine thinking that this is a substantial social problem that should justify changing one's voting behavior.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  If you have been banned from running an event at every single college, every single local bar, every single local theater, etc, you still have just as much ability to get your message out as the vast majority of average people. Nobody has any obligation to provide you a platform. That is literally their first amendment right. If you want to use the government against "cancel culture", you are attempting to suppress people's first amendment rights of association. The founding fathers had to pay people to print their pamphlets. That option has always been available and was the very context that the first amendment was built around. The founding fathers never expected anyone else to carry their ideas. They expected ideas to be carried by their merit.
neilv 2y ago
Campus talk de-invitings are only small part of the set of behavior I was referring to. (I was sloppy, and didn't integrate the anecdote well as I wrote the comment, so I think the anecdote confused my message more than helped.)
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  My general observation is that none of these things (witch hunting, attacking, or deplatforming from the left) happen at any scale to merit their coverage other than perhaps "public figures get yelled at on twitter." And, I dunno, I feel like the fact that my friends who aren't public figures but do research on climate change get weekly death threats just seems more important than the fact that people yell at JK Rowling online for being transphobic.
  - neilv 2y ago
    That's awful about your friends, and I agree there appears to be a huge general problem with that kind of thing. I hope the FBI are able to help, on at least a case-by case basis, if they can't solve the pipeline problem. I still think there's a large problem with a dominant mode of interaction we're seeing by much of the left-leaning (it's pervasive online, and transparent pandering and manipulation in left-appealing news shows), and that it's hurting more than it's helping.
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      I agree that there are people on the left who are mean online and that they shouldn't generally act this way. I just think that 1. This largely ends here (there are exceptions, and it is definitely no fun to be yelled at online) 2. The right has consistently acted in all of the same ways (plus more bomb threats) to no similar criticism 3. The political strategy of the left cannot require "literally everybody online is on their best behavior all of the time." And no, law enforcement is absolutely uninterested in dealing with death threats sent by people who think that doing research on climate change is evil. The idea that the FBI would help out is odd to me.

michtzik 2y ago

The FIRE Campus Deplatforming Database claims to collect 769 successful deplatforming attempts.

UncleMeat 2y ago
My number is per-year. The data above is since 1998. So in the last 27 years we've seen an average of 28 successful deplatforming attempts annually. The website cites 172 attempts (not necessarily successful) in 2024. There are thousands of colleges in the US. Surely hundreds of thousands of invited talks annually. I just cannot imagine thinking that this is a substantial social problem that should justify changing one's voting behavior.
mrguyorama 2y ago
If you have been banned from running an event at every single college, every single local bar, every single local theater, etc, you still have just as much ability to get your message out as the vast majority of average people. Nobody has any obligation to provide you a platform. That is literally their first amendment right. If you want to use the government against "cancel culture", you are attempting to suppress people's first amendment rights of association. The founding fathers had to pay people to print their pamphlets. That option has always been available and was the very context that the first amendment was built around. The founding fathers never expected anyone else to carry their ideas. They expected ideas to be carried by their merit.

neilv 2y ago

Campus talk de-invitings are only small part of the set of behavior I was referring to. (I was sloppy, and didn't integrate the anecdote well as I wrote the comment, so I think the anecdote confused my message more than helped.)

UncleMeat 2y ago
My general observation is that none of these things (witch hunting, attacking, or deplatforming from the left) happen at any scale to merit their coverage other than perhaps "public figures get yelled at on twitter." And, I dunno, I feel like the fact that my friends who aren't public figures but do research on climate change get weekly death threats just seems more important than the fact that people yell at JK Rowling online for being transphobic.
- neilv 2y ago
  That's awful about your friends, and I agree there appears to be a huge general problem with that kind of thing. I hope the FBI are able to help, on at least a case-by case basis, if they can't solve the pipeline problem. I still think there's a large problem with a dominant mode of interaction we're seeing by much of the left-leaning (it's pervasive online, and transparent pandering and manipulation in left-appealing news shows), and that it's hurting more than it's helping.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    I agree that there are people on the left who are mean online and that they shouldn't generally act this way. I just think that 1. This largely ends here (there are exceptions, and it is definitely no fun to be yelled at online) 2. The right has consistently acted in all of the same ways (plus more bomb threats) to no similar criticism 3. The political strategy of the left cannot require "literally everybody online is on their best behavior all of the time." And no, law enforcement is absolutely uninterested in dealing with death threats sent by people who think that doing research on climate change is evil. The idea that the FBI would help out is odd to me.